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Alpine_Tom

NOVA Denali show coming up

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Damn. I thought no one would remember that.

And my iBook was full of Barry Manilow tunes too blush.gif

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My wife got the same vibe from the K2 show, some of the guys were a little cocky. It was clear they were just going in with an edgy angle to stir the pot a little, and they got a lot of the type of quotes they wanted.

 

I liked the Denali show. The implication that core temp. variation could be more predictive of performance than the actual temp. is particularly intriguing.

 

I thought the K2 show was pretty, but weak... Was that the theme??

 

They failed to place the "K2 women" climbing fatality rate in the context of "K2 men." A sample size of five is pretty unreliable, unless you're taking the mystic fate approach. Obviously, one of the five women was underexperienced. How does that compare to the ratio of inexperienced men that attempt K2? How many men vs. women have turned back? How many of them are dead? The bottom line is that their thesis was boring: 10% of the successful ascents of K2 were represented by women and none of them are currently alive. BFD.

 

The complaint about women disrupting the "party dynamic" for the men seemed pretty lame. It says more to me about the social instability of those particular men... Couldn't be the same group that ignored Beckey, eh???

 

-t

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Watching the climbers and seeing how fast/slow their temps changed, and the variation, that was surprising to me. Good show.

 

The K2 one was a little half-baked. They tried to make an interesting viewing for non-climbers. The other issue was from their small sample, most of the women died off of K2, and they really made a stretch trying to link those accidents to the K2 story.

 

I thought the "party dynamic" bit was wierd too. It's kind of understandable, some of the issues that come from a mixed group, but they went a little far and were on the whole a bit dramatic.

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I thought the extreme temperature fluctuation in astro-dude was interesting. Perhaps a theory worthy of further research, but hardly compelling science.

 

It was a cool video trip report though.

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they kept showing the guides in their winter wear and then astroblaster in his MMU.

 

the guy was dressing completely inappropriately ensconced in that spacesuit. no wonder nasa is going nowhere.

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And if any seracs were to fall on him, he'd roundhouse kick the ice blocks into fine spindrift and make whiskey slushies with it.

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The complaint about women disrupting the "party dynamic" for the men seemed pretty lame. It says more to me about the social instability of those particular men... Couldn't be the same group that ignored Beckey, eh???

-t

 

Hey -- maybe that's why Fred didn't get invited to Everest - they thought Beckey was a first name!

 

"Annapurna -- a Woman's Place" talks about the same thing (what, 20 years ago? 30?) with men telling women that they had no business on high mountains, etc. I recall one woman on the expedition saying she'd been on a Denali climb where the guys on the climb said if she wanted to go along to the summit, she had to sleep with each of them.

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One thing I was wondering about the core temp thing is what was the cause of the different ranges of temp. Fluctuation. The show leads me to believe it was physiological. After thinking about it for a while I began to think it may not be. The guy with large temp. Fluctuation was the astronaut. I got the impression he had little or no experience climbing. If that is so he probably is not very good at using his clothing layers to regulate his body temp. I bet he was roasting him self when he was moving. As soon as he stopped I bet he became cold and clammy. The experienced climbers would probably be much better at using their clothing layers to regulate temp. If they are much less sweaty when they stop it would seem logical that their temp would drop too far. Anyway that is my stupid theory and I'm sticking with it.

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That's a good point about the layering. I see that all the time. Also, he was likely way stressed, trying to perform well (i.e. likely pushing a bit too hard, out of his comfort zone), then just letting go when he was on a break. Rather than trying to fit his rhythm into the context of a bigger day and a bigger climb, his rhythm and corresponding mind-body function were more erratic.

 

There wasn't much discussion about that. Still interesting, though.

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Yeah, I was wondering about the same sort of thing. Like most climbers, I find myself trying to reach some degree of homeostasis by modulating my layers, breathing and movement rate. I spend a lot of time hiking with my hat or gloves in my hands, putting them on or taking them off as I get warmer or colder without having to change my pace. I like zippered shirts for the same reason: adjustments on the fly. It's one thing to blow hot and cold on short days, but when you're looking at one of those 12+ hour pushes, it seems critical to keep things stable.

 

I was amazed to see that 8 F° swing in the astronaut's core temp. over less than a minute! I wonder if he was all lathered in a sweat... maybe some armchair engineer can come up with a flux value (Jules/m2) for the rate at which heat was blowing through his skin?

 

-t

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The temperature fluctuation data was interesting. Hard to see how you could have fluctuations that fast if it was just due to layering problems. One possible phyiologic explanation would be this: AMS and HACE are now seen as being the same diseas, just two different ends of a spectrum of severity. If the temperatures are reflective of poor acclimatization, perhaps there are CNS effects going on in the area of the thermoregulatory centers of the brain that lead to such fluctuations. Right now, it's impossible to know. The information presented in the NOVA show is basically just anecdotal. Three data points. Without more studies in larger numbers of people, you can't draw any conclusions

 

I was a bit peeved they threw in the Gingko Biloba test on Pikes Peak. Most of the recent data shows it is no better than placebo in preventing altitude illness. The presentation on NOVA was misleading. Stick to Diamox or Dex for prophylaxis.

 

The K2 piece had some interesting historical stuff and great footage but, otherwise seemed like a pointless piece.

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