destruction of summit registers

[joe_catellani]

Building on the "Rangers Lie" thread, I've heard from reliable sources that it was (and still is?) NCNP policy to have climbing rangers remove (ie toss off) summit registers because they are "installations not in keeping with wilderness".

I think the tradition of summit registers should be kept as it preceded creation of NCNP. Just as plane landing are allowed in Denali NP because they historically preceded creation of the park, so should the tradition of summit registers be allowed to continue.

Is there anyone out there with a legal background that would like to pursue this, ie get a judge's order that the park can't destroy summit registers? It's kind of a little brother to book burning.

[Dru]

Do your part by tossing rangers off summits when you find them there. They weren't there originally either and are not part of my conception of wilderness!

[Alpine_Tom]

Is there a ranger out there (like Mike Gauthier) who knows something about this? is this an actual policy, or up to the individual ranger, or just an urban (or wilderness) legend.

Seems like, at a minimum, it would be exceptionally bad form to "toss" the register tube off the summit, that they'd need to pack it down with them.

There's enough other stuff that are "installations not in keeping with wilderness" like bridges and trail improvements of various kinds, that it doesn't seem very realistic that they'd care about this. On the other hand, it's been a few years since I've actually seen one...

FWIW, I really enjoy leafing through the summit registers. Shortly after I got Vol 1 of the "Selected Climbs" I climbed up a little peak up by Chair peak, and in the summit register I saw the signature of Eve Dearborn, about whom I'd just learned.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I like the registers too Tom and always find them interesting.

I find it very hard to believe that rangers destroy summit registers. Gimme a break I want some facts on this.

[DPS]

This is not the first time I have heard this rumor, no idea if there is any truth to it.

[Cpt.Caveman]

If I ever see it I will toss the ranger into the abyss

[Stefan]

It is true that the Rangers will remove the summit registers. However, they do and have not removed several registers within the NCNP which I have seen and have been there since the mid 60's. I can attest to 3 different peaks where this is the case. I will not divulge the name of the peaks because I fear then the rangers might then set about to remove them.

But I would like to know that removing the registers becuase they are "permanent fixtures" or becuase they are seen as "trash" wouldn't the same logic then follow for trail signs? Trail signs are permanent fixtures.

[joe_catellani]

I suspect the reason those 3 registers haven't been removed is the NCNP rangers didn't climb those peaks. Mike Gauthier might not know anything about this as it is a North Cascades NP issue, not an issue elsewhere(ie Rainier).

[wdietsch]

It is standard pratice by the forest service, and has been for many years (since 1982 I belive) to remove all summit registers within any wilderness area under the departments jurisdiction. As far as national parks I know of many registers still in place from the north cascades to SoCal and also of several that no longer can be found. How they disappeared I do not know.

I think the policy SUCKS! As a kid learning to climb in the late seventies I often found the entries to hold great beta on anything from route descriptions to the weather let alone some of the best humor I have read to date. Even hiking to easier summits as a young child it gave you such a feeling of acomplishment to "sign in" like the "big guys" to be "one of the few on the crew".

Personally I think all the horse shit on the trail is more offensive than a pvc tube neatly place in a pile of rocks. A tube that less than 1% of the population will ever see

[Alpine_Tom]

Well, I was home Tuesday, so I called the N. Cascades NP (360-873-4500) and left a message for their head climbing ranger, Kelly Bush, who left a message on my home answering machine yesterday.

"The short answer" as she put it, is that no, the forest service does NOT have a policy of removing summit registers. They used to, but haven't since at least 1997, as a result of "a dialog with the climbing community." I'm not sure what that means, if it's the Mountaineers or what. She said she was interested in discussing it further with me, unfortunately she's in the field much of the day, and I'm at work, so I guess this answer will have to suffice.

I heard someplace that some summit registers, like Mt. Constance in particular, are pilfered as souvenirs. It's possible that might be happening on some of the more accessible peaks, like Sahali or Boston.

[backcountrydog]

maybe the rangers in question consider themselves 'hardcore trad rangers'. maybe they think that anyone who needs a register to sign at the top of some mtn., just to show they did it, is a pussy. maybe the 'leave no trace' (except the 'trace' they justify) ethic is something they feel strongly about. most 'hardcore "fill-in-the-blank"-ers feel strongly about something. personally i like reading, and signing, registers. its part of climbing history. much the same way that pitons, bolts, cams, and the I'm-a-climber-and-I'm-right arguments are a part of climbing history.

since the rangers work where we play, we have to deal with their opinions. i just hope that the ideas and actions of the cascade rangers arent as extreme as some of the bolt gridders/bolt choppers in the climbing community.

maybe there is a cascaderangers bulletin board with all kinds of bashings about pussy, 'user', climber types...

[Alpine_Tom]

And now, too late for any useful input, comes the following e-mail to a question I posted on this topic to the N. Cascades website:

--- Galen Stark <Galen_Stark@nps.gov> wrote:

> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:45:09 -0400

> From: Galen_Stark@nps.gov (Galen Stark)

> Subject: Re:Fwd:north cascades climbing rangers

>

> Mr. Breit:

>

> Thank you for your inquiry.

>

> The 1964 Wilderness Act, the National Park Service

> Wilderness Management policy

> (Directors Order and Reference Manual 41), and the

> North Cascades National Park

> Wilderness Management Plan provide direction to

> protect and manage wilderness to

> retain its primeval character and influence, without

> permanent improvements or

> human habitation, preserving natural conditions,

> generally appearing to have

> been affected primarily by the forces of nature,

> with the imprint of man's work

> substantially unnoticeable, and, except as necessary

> to meet minimum

> requirements for the administration of the area,

> there shall be no structure or

> installation within any such area.

>

> A summit register can be considered an

> "installation," and serves no purpose to

> the National Park Service in the administration of

> the wilderness. The

> placement of such registers in wilderness is

> inappropriate. Some registers were

> removed by NPS staff from remote summits during the

> 1990's, leading to a

> mid-1990's dialogue with the Mountaineers on the

> subject. I understand that the

> resulting agreement was to leave registers (metal

> canisters) at the more

> prominent peaks. The NPS does not presently remove

> these metal canister

> registers.

>

> Galen Stark

> Wilderness District Ranger

> North Cascades National Park

> 7280 Ranger Station Road

> Marblemount, WA 98267

> 360-873-4590, ext. 14