Bolting a crack to "protect it from pins"....

[mattp]

I don't think I'd direct somebody new to the debate to study up by reading cc.com, but I agree that it is good to keep the issues alive and this is one place where we can do that.

[sexual_chocolate]

I wrote:

 

Except for the first 15' it had been climbed. The first 15' was squeezed in between Snow White and All Purpose Duck. SOme of the handholds on Dwarf are in fact footholds of All Purpose Duck. A section that had been {edit to add word free} led free onsight without bolts now has an additional 5 bolts.

 

 

 

So to clarify for those not know the route. After the first 10-15’ Dwarf Tossing (DT) joins All Purpose Duck (APD) and Snow White (SW). After 25’ or so APD veers right, DT/SW continues up (what else) SW. So in a pitch ending at the first ledge of SW we have 15' of new climbing. After that the route is same as the old Snow White. We freed APD thus my comment bolded above. We only claimed a first free ascent not the first ascent. We gave it the name APD because it had no name. I never claimed to have freed all of Snow White. Had I would have claimed the FFA not the FA. I will admit to failing on TR trying to free SW after doing APD and never returning. The title of the thread I linked to is:”Adding a bolt to Midnight Rock.” My question to SC was direct and cordial his response was as follows:

 

And, it wasn't a claim, it was a statement of fact: Dwarf Tosser WAS the best new route at Index (no quotes needed).

And it wasn't retro-bolted because before bolting, it didn't exist.

 

At the time I thought it was not a direct and honest answer. As I said later in the thread I can care less about the bolts. I was asking a direct question about bolting existing routes and offered silliness.

 

Readers can figure for themselves who is spinning.

 

 

so if an existing aid line gets a different start and gets freed, is it a new climb....that's the question, right?

 

to me, it's a new climb, to you it's not. ok, fair enough. I don't see what else there is to argue about.

[RuMR]

bolts vs. pins vs. gear

 

or...

 

bush is a clown:discuss

[sexual_chocolate]

oh my gosh, i have to go now....

[archenemy]

I like spray. And it don't cost a dime.

[billcoe]

When you all reach a consensus on this, please let me know what I need to do to keep my behavior in line with the group.

 

I have a lot of ambivalance about this kind of thing. It pisses me off to see bolts next to a crack that will protect with natural gear. I generally agree with Joseph and even somewhat with Pope.

 

Yet I am spending my free time rap cleaning an area. With a pry bar, shovels, saws, brushes, brooms and other implements of destruction no less. Hell, who wants to get offed by a 400 lb block of stone on a filthy dirty groundup FA when you can safetly crank it off and watch it fall clean to the ground on toprope rappell? Not this hypocritacal pussy I can assure you.

 

I appreciate what Ron O has done and agree with his philosphies of constructive scarring, Especially in real soft stone areas. The question remains for all stone however, why should great granite be allowed to be pounded to shit by pins? Why not fix pins or (last resort) put bolts into the trade routes? Why allow them to be beat to shit until we are later forced to do it? It's weak bullshit IMO. If you can't do it clean with Lowe balls, Aliens etc etc, , then fix the pins and do it now.

 

I see the public relation pics on the new "Sharma" route up in Squamish and it looks like a pic of a crack with bolts next to it. I haven't done the route, but if the pic is what is really there, then it's crap, I don't care who did it.

 

However, in an attempt to not be a bigger hypocryte than I already am, I'm sitting down and shutting the hell up.

 

See my opening statement for clarification.

 

Regards to all: but particularly those trying to really sort this out.

[billcoe]

not that you'll get anywhere or change anyones opinion......

[Dru]

I see the public relation pics on the new "Sharma" route up in Squamish and it looks like a pic of a crack with bolts next to it.

 

You need better glasses, old man.

[billcoe]

 

You need better glasses, old man.

 

true

[crazyjizzy]

I see the public relation pics on the new "Sharma" route up in Squamish and it looks like a pic of a crack with bolts next to it. I haven't done the route, but if the pic is what is really there, then it's crap, I don't care who did it.

 

I think I know the climb, and it is pretty much A3. Very few Americans do that real hard stuff on tied off babes.

[Dru]

no, it traverses across a sloping rail on an overhanging wall to the top of that climb.

[crazyjizzy]

no, it traverses across a sloping rail on an overhanging wall to the top of that climb.

 

So your saying that it isn't one of the old nail ups in the caves? That is not what the article says, and that is not what the photo shows.

 

I think that it is "Rainmaker".

[Dru]

It starts on Kloset Klimb and finishes at the anchors on Rurp Riot. I thought you thought it WAS Rurp Riot. Which should be called Baby Angle Bash. there's a crack that would still be rurp sized if it had been bolted, beat out piece of shit now, takes fingertips and tricams and tied off angles.

[Distel32]

looks at least 5.10+

[Dru]

5.8d