RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 good points rudy, but what about the climb that becomes climbable only after pin placements? then i will send a PM to poop, dwanus, and whackJoseph to let them know that their is a new free route to climb on.... Quote
JosephH Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 dude, if you are telling us that pins are as reliable and secure as bolts, then everything rudy says above is true: you are whacked. Pins can be absolutely as secure as bolts, but are designed to provide differing levels of security based on size and placement exactly like clean pro. And as I just posted, their reliability is far easier judged over time and can be checked with one blow of a hammer whereas you have to remove a bolt to have a remote clue whether it is bad or not regardless of what it looks like. Again, as far as I'm concerned bolts are rush to mindless absolutes by the clueless and insecure when cracks are available. Quote
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 blah blah blah the rest of the world is crazy and i'm sane blah blah blah blah blah Quote
JosephH Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 No just solidly under the influence of gyms and bolting for at least as long as you've been climbing... Quote
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 i started climbing before gyms...and before sport climbing...but your point was? Quote
tomtom Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 dude, if you are telling us that pins are as reliable and secure as bolts, then everything rudy says above is true: you are whacked. Pins can be absolutely as secure as bolts, but are designed to provide differing levels of security based on size and placement exactly like clean pro. And as I just posted, their reliability is far easier judged over time and can be checked with one blow of a hammer whereas you have to remove a bolt to have a remote clue whether it is bad or not regardless of what it looks like. I'll guess that most folks climb "hammerless" these days. Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 oh come on, you're so new skool. i always carry a hammer attached to the traditional stick up my bum. Quote
chirp Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 This image serves a dual purpose and considering the thread flow, almost perfect. Many of you wont get it but for those that do Quote
JosephH Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 i started climbing before gyms...and before sport climbing...but your point was? Well, at twenty years you didn't start climbing before sport climbing by any means which was well underway by '85. You did beat gyms by eight years but the influence is the same regardless. People have been basically clipping bolts so long that they now simply require that absolute, that the variability of pins that I happen to love simply makes the majority of today's climbers uneasy. It's about black and white versus grey. About industry vs. art. I have no problem at all if I end up the last person stillholding that perspective... Quote
archenemy Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 But part of me is really not thinking about the beauty of the climb so much as the inexplicable viceral response to it. I'm telling you dude, your inexplicable response to the experience (not the beauty of the pitch) is explained this way (whether you understand this on some conscious level or not): when you're climbing a wall without bolts, you feel scared, wild, independent, rugged, maybe like a pioneer, like a mountain man, like a warrior. When you clip bolts, you feel like a pussified city boy, and there is visual evidence to suggest you're not far from civilization, and that depresses you. Our session is over. Get off mny couch. Oh...and that'll be $50 please. You are telling me that you understand my subconscious better than I do? Hmm, I doubt it. You can't even figure out that I am a woman. And I am from Montana, and I have lived outside of civilization. Take your 50 bucks and buy yourself a clue. Quote
JosephH Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 I'll guess that most folks climb "hammerless" these days. I suppose you carry an x-ray macine when you climb? The use of a hammer was in the a comment was about checking the reliability of fixed pro when surveying it for replacement. Again, as years go by it's a lot easier to judge the quality of pin placement then a bolt. Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 gosh it's true. bolts have become so unreliable that we better start replacing them with pins. Quote
JosephH Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 This image serves a dual purpose and considering the thread flow, almost perfect. Many of you wont get it but for those that do Actually the real point should be that he's playing music from the 16-1700's on an instrument probably made in the same period that it is still as good any produced today... Quote
fenderfour Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 Drilled angles and a gentleman who was recently featured in an aid climbing video, I assume. Quote
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 i started climbing before gyms...and before sport climbing...but your point was? Well, at twenty years you didn't start climbing before sport climbing by any means which was well underway by '85. You did beat gyms by eight years but the influence is the same regardless. People have been basically clipping bolts so long that they now simply require that absolute, that the variability of pins that I happen to love simply makes the majority of today's climbers uneasy. It's about black and white versus grey. About industry vs. art. I have no problem at all if I end up the last person stillholding that perspective... i said OVER 20 years...not 20 years...and the places i started at were (and for the most part still are) trad... Quote
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 gosh it's true. bolts have become so unreliable that we better start replacing them with pins. ROTFLMAO with a pin, no less... Quote
JosephH Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 gosh it's true. bolts have become so unreliable that we better start replacing them with pins. ROTFLMAO with a pin, no less... Until you've replaced a bunch of bolts of varying ages I'd say you don't really know what you're talking whether the discussion is bolts or pins. And to the degree that the line of bolts in the photo doesn't bother folks is exactly the degree the climbing has become simply another risk-free entertainment alternative on par with Six Flags. But then a bunch of you do sound like risk-free is first and foremost what it's all about for you... Quote
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 i've replaced and installed and chopped a ton of bolts...in competent rock with good installation and proper sealing an expansion bolt will flat out perform better in the long run than a pin... so keep talking...you don't know a thing about me...i'm responding to your posts and their content...YOU are making assumptions about me and then filling in the blanks... Quote
archenemy Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 i've replaced and installed and chopped a ton of bolts...in competent rock with good installation and proper sealing an expansion bolt will flat out perform better in the long run than a pin... so keep talking...you don't know a thing about me...i'm responding to your posts and their content...YOU are making assumptions about me and then filling in the blanks... Yeah, watch out buddy. Go get em RumR Quote
Cobra_Commander Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 If that crack photo that professor CBS posted is actually reasonably protected I bet everyone in this little playground brawl agrees the bolts are a monstrosity. and if anyone posts "you don't know anything about me" again I'm gonna puke Quote
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 gosh it's true. bolts have become so unreliable that we better start replacing them with pins. ROTFLMAO with a pin, no less... Until you've replaced a bunch of bolts of varying ages I'd say you don't really know what you're talking whether the discussion is bolts or pins. And to the degree that the line of bolts in the photo doesn't bother folks is exactly the degree the climbing has become simply another risk-free entertainment alternative on par with Six Flags. But then a bunch of you do sound like risk-free is first and foremost what it's all about for you... joseph, feel free to continue installing fixed gear where you deem it appropriate...and continue to install inferior systems using all of your skill to bring it up to snuff...now wait, what was the reason for the fixed gear in the first place? I forgot.... BTW...Disneyland is celebrating its 50th!?! WOOFUCKIN'WOOHOOO!!! Quote
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 If that crack photo that professor CBS posted is actually reasonably protected I bet everyone in this little playground brawl agrees the bolts are a monstrosity. and if anyone posts "you don't know anything about me" again I'm gonna puke you don't know anything about me...bitch! Quote
JosephH Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 If you've replaced and chopped a ton of bolts then you know looking at bolts tells you nothing about their reliability. That unless you personally placed it, know the quality of the bolt/rock, and know the date it went in then you really don't know squat about one simply by it's looks. You'd also know that a lot of bolts are placed lousy. And the point isn't necessarily the longegvity of bolts, but of the inability to know when they've gone bad; how easy is it to verify that they are good and quickly fix it. My assumptions come from what you keep saying which indicate you know nothing about pins and for you're claims to boltmanship you appear to have learned precious little about them as well... Quote
Squid Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 and the gloves are off... time to put the popcorn in the microwave. Quote
sweatinoutliquor Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 You are telling me that you understand my subconscious better than I do? Hmm, I doubt it. You can't even figure out that I am a woman. And I am from Montana, and I have lived outside of civilization. Take your 50 bucks and buy yourself a clue. Ha! I was waiting for you to get back to him on this stuff! Quote
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