Who rap bolted steins pillar?

[corvallisclimb]

was out there a while ago to scope the thing, and noticed what 2 bolt lines going directly to the top, and a rope fixed all the way up the regular route. has the horrible ethical standard of smith rock made its way 30 miles east? its sad to see prized summits like steins, that once where only attaind by hardmen seeking adventure. can be attained by your average 5.11 sport wanker on a break from something at smith. what happend to ethics in oregon?

[John Frieh]

Are the bolts on lines that could be protected w/ trad gear?

 

average 5.11 sport wanker on a break from something at smith

 

Can you climb 5.11?

[Cobra_Commander]

well he can certainly spray 5.11

[corvallisclimb]

well he can certainly spray 5.11

That I've never done, cc, you are the one with probably 800 posts in spray since your reg, go back you where your posts count. This is an attempt to start a real discussion, not a place for spray lords or cheastbeats.

 

John- I do not belive so, this was about 2 months ago when I was there, and I never got around to posting this. I could, and have gotten up some 5.11 sport with a bit of A0, just not really my style though. If I'm going to pull on things, I might as well leave the free shoes at home.

 

This isnt some anti sport climbng post, or anything like that. Its more, is Steins Pillar really the place for this? I found it to be an eyesore. It seemd as if the culprit couldnt even fix his rope to one of his prizes, he had to tie up the regular route on the NE face 5.8 A2 or 5.11a FA 1950. If these new routes where put up on lead drilling from stances and hooks, more power to them. But I definatly do not see this as the style there routes where put up. Some one came in with a power drill and lots of ropes, and made it a day. Am I wrong for not agreeing with this style even if I couldnt "red point" their new line?

[John Frieh]

This isnt some anti sport climbng post, or anything like that. Its more, is Steins Pillar really the place for this? I found it to be an eyesore.

Perhaps you (or someone) could camo the hangers?

 

It seemd as if the culprit couldnt even fix his rope to one of his prizes, he had to tie up the regular route on the NE face 5.8 A2 or 5.11a FA 1950.

 

That's too bad but didn't you put ropes on Turkey Monster all summer (I could be wrong here)? How is that different? I would agree I don't like seeing ropes hanging there over time.

 

If these new routes where put up on lead drilling from stances and hooks, more power to them. But I definatly do not see this as the style there routes where put up. Some one came in with a power drill and lots of ropes, and made it a day. Am I wrong for not agreeing with this style even if I couldnt "red point" their new line?

 

You (and everyone else on this site) is entitled to their opinion regarding what is the best style. It is my opinion that if this person wanted to create a sport route for all to enjoy he should put in the best bolts he/she can and in a place that makes the route safe and enjoyable... i.e. good route engineering. You and I both know that rap bolting allows for better route engineering than on lead. Yes bolting on lead is "bolder"... but is it a smarter and safer way to create sport routes? I would say no.

[layton]

i just think it's a waste of time and money bolting something stupid like stein's pillar. go do something interesting, not this piddley stupid shit.

 

if you've got a bunch of bolts and time, email me and i'll make you a little activity list.

[John Frieh]

i just think it's a waste of time and money bolting something stupid like stein's pillar. go do something interesting, not this piddley stupid shit.

 

I would say to each their own. I would guess you look at Steins and say "why?" and the sport climber stoked about a new 5.11 route would look at 2 days of devil's club and say "why?".

 

As long as people are getting out, having a good time, and not negatively impacting others more power to them!

[layton]

but NOLSe, then we would have NOTHING to bitch about and what fun is that????

 

If you want to be completely honest, all climbing is a stupid waste of our meaningless lives.

[John Frieh]

but NOLSe, then we would have NOTHING to bitch about and what fun is that????

 

It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

[corvallisclimb]

You (and everyone else on this site) is entitled to their opinion regarding what is the best style. It is my opinion that if this person wanted to create a sport route for all to enjoy he should put in the best bolts he/she can and in a place that makes the route safe and enjoyable... i.e. good route engineering. You and I both know that rap bolting allows for better route engineering than on lead. Yes bolting on lead is "bolder"... but is it a smarter and safer way to create sport routes? I would say no.

 

I totaly agree with you. My biggest issue is, is that is steins really the place for a project like this? Mabey I shouldnt even be questioning this, but this is a disucssion form so people please discuss. But I'd rather not see this be a discussion about me and what I can an cant do.

 

And Mike check it out someday, its not too stupid, its a very proud looking pillar in a cool location.

[ryland_moore]

I think the bigger concern would be that Stein's Pillar was rap bolted in Ochoco National Forest. While not illegal to bolt in National Forest lands unless expressly stated, it does a disservice to the climbing community as a whole if hikers and other groups (Native Americans!) feel that climbers trashed the area.....

[Cobra_Commander]

That I've never done, cc, you are the one with probably 800 posts in spray since your reg, go back you where your posts count.

 

I was referring to your post here, whining on some website about this. Sorry I didn't wave my tough guy credentials and crack open an oe as I walked in the door.

[corvallisclimb]

That I've never done, cc, you are the one with probably 800 posts in spray since your reg, go back you where your posts count.

 

I was referring to your post here, whining on some website about this. Sorry I didn't wave my tough guy credentials and crack open an oe as I walked in the door.

 

I think your a little bit confused, not every fourm on here is titled "sray". Thats where the whiners post.

[JosephH]

"I would say to each their own."

 

The problem is some folks don't want to see bolted lines in a setting like that and that constitutes a valid "their own" as the person putting them in. I'm not a local over there, but if I was camo'ing wouldn't be my solution of choice. The perspective that anything and everything can and should be bolted is somehow ok, legitimate, or some sort of laissez faire or cute anarchist stance blows, a fascist one is more like it.

[Cobra_Commander]

I see, okay, just let it go. And yes it is unfortunate there are more bolted lines out there. But I wonder how long they have been there. I seem to remember someone talking about them to me before at some point. They are hard, if I'm not mistaken.

[JosephH]

Cobra and Corvallis, who are you guys? I don't know everyone's handle here...

[sweatinoutliquor]

I think there are some good points on both sides here (as in most bolting discussions). I agree with R_M, that it's unfortunate that these things are not discussed openly before being put in. I know that discussions would be rabid on both sides, but still, it's scary that anybody with the will and a drill can permantly alter routes for future generations. And how come you don't see more of those camo hangers out there? Are they more expensive? Just harder to find and clip? Does the color eventually come off? I dunno, that one seems like a no brainer to me. What makes me wonder is why there is still active sport route development that close to smith. I mean, doesn't that place have, like a bizillion 5.11 sport routes? I would think that those would be sufficient to keep most climbers happy for years! And sheet, if you really feel the need to get away from the crowds a bit, buy some cams and go get wild! Anyway, just my opinions. I can't climb 5.11 anyway!

[corvallisclimb]

Well if people let it go, and no one voices a strong opposed opinion, pretty soon all rock in the PNW will be grid bolted. "The best climber in the world is the one clipping the most bolts"

[corvallisclimb]

Cobra and Corvallis, who are you guys? I don't know everyone's handle here...

 

 

My name is Tyler Adams and I live in Corvallis, Oregon. I don't belive we have met, why are you curious?

 

I guess I can't talk now, that no one knows who I am...

Edited October 18, 2005 by corvallisclimb

[jlag]

That line has been bolted for a while. I believe the rope you saw is someone doing route maintenence. The existing anchors and bolts on that thing were horrible. I don't know if any of y'all spend much time in or around Prineville, but they don't give a shit about bolts in the rock. Of course i'm not speaking for everyone out there, but using camo hangers is a waste of time. Spend some time in the forest out there and you won't feel bad about bolts and fixed lines. Personally I think bolting a hard free line on Steins is a bit selfish, how many people are gonna head out there to do it?

 

Prineville peeps don't pull bolts, they shoot climbers.

[JosephH]

My name is Tyler Adams and I live in Corvallis, Oregon. I don't belive we have met, why are you curious?

 

Just like to know who's in these conversations. There's a guy down your way named Vern and I thought you might be him...

[corvallisclimb]

Ahh no, Vern seems like a cool dude though, from the times I've run into him.

[AFIVE]

I don't know about the fixed line on the original line. Chip replaced all the anchors on that route about three years ago. The protection on the origianl line are horrendous! They are lead sleaves with wood screws put into them and bent up into a ring shape to clip. I would say that is a good guess....someone is replacing the bad bolts. I did the original line and rapped down the opposite side and bolted "Shasta's spirit 5.11d". All of these newer routes were done 2001. It deffinately doesn't take gear like most all of the pillar. There is a 5.10 "mass wasting" on the downhill side of the pillar. The original line also has an alternate 1st pitch that was bolted by Chip. There are two other multipitch routes on the satelite rocks to the west. "Money Whiskey Sexy" is a 5.9 put up by Chip and "Heatwave" is another 5.9 on the most westerly rock put up by Jim and Chip. No one goes out there because there were two routes to do. Now you can go out there and warm up on a 5.9 or 5.10, and then go for some of the 5.11's or the second route up the thing that is the only route that takes gear the 5.10d corner that turns into bolted face climbing to the summit. Shasta's Spirit is only one pitch. It has 11 bolts and then the anchor. It will most likely go for another two pitches to the top. Trust me if I could have placed gear I would have. I am a Trad climber! That summer was one of my two years of sportclimbing. I think that was the last time I clipped a bolt that wasn't a part of an anchor.

[retired]

A good friend has added another couple very sporty (from what I hear) lines on Steins the last couple years. I did the Northface 25 years ago and couldn't believe what I was clipping, good on ya Chip for replacing those time bombs. I really don't know why anyone would be outraged about some nice bolted routes,as long as you aren't bolting protectable cracks, hell it's just monkeyface up in the woods. Look forward to jumping on the new rigs soon. See it's all just climbing from bouldering to big walls, climb trad climb sport, climb both just remember this is all about fun. As for the fixed rope, I'd check it out and if it looks abandoned clean it and make a rug. Jim

[JosephH]

...just remember this is all about fun.

 

Jim, I sure wish it were that simple. But access issues, degradation of rock, trails, trees, etc. are all a result of crowding and providing "safe climbing" resources to a growing population of climbers unprepared and uninterested in dealing with anything else. That in turn attracts more of the same in a spiral that is not without consequences.

 

Maybe it's the different areas we both started climbing in. In Southern Illinois the pristine hollows are stunning and the impact of chalk, bolts, draws, and crowds are significant and immediate; in Southern Oregon that probably isn't quite as much the case (and from what I saw at Jurrasic 50 gallon drums of epoxy and several napalm strikes to clean up the oak would be more in order). But I grew up with a LNT sensibility that I've never strayed far from, I suspect you didn't. But to simply say "it's all just fun" is fine if you ignore the consequences or don't consider them an issue - I can't. I have enormous respect for your climbing, and enjoyed meeting you, but we obviously disagree on this particular front. I've never placed a protection bolt and don't care for seeing every unprotected rock in the US bolted for the sake of "fun".

 

That said, I hope we can hook up out at Beacon when I get back in town...