viktor Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 Thanks for your comments, Jeff. The topos are the about as good as my limited abilities can scratch out but I realize that photos of the crags is the way to go. The next edition will have crag photos along with some topos. The binding problem has been fixed in the last 2 printings (you must have an old one). Hopefully, the next book will be an improvement and will be as well received as Washington Rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none_dup1 Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 I have certainly gotten lost looking for rock climbs, and in fact did so just yesterday. But I have never gotten lost with Viktor's books and the topos have almost always been right on. There are many derogatory things have been said about a certain WA author's topos and his means of acquiring them. From what I know, none of these negative remarks could be levelled at Viktor. The only "downside" to any good guidebook is the inevitable "overcrowding" that results. But that is a different debate. So Caveman, go club someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 Maybe on a crag like Snow Creek Wall you can topo the wall in sections. Or split photos with software. Topo from OSpace Left then right then the tower areas each seperately too?? By the way I aint Jeff. MGT I aint clubbing anyone bozo! I was just putting in my 2cents worth in since he was asking.... Maybe your idea of a Good Time is getting the super monchmonster whacking mit the brown doodie foozemeister club? [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 05-07-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrogers Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 Getting lost is half the fun. Having dropped one of Viktor's books from the 2nd pitch of the Regular Route and seeing it disintegrate on the way down, I took my new one to Kinko's and had it spiral bound with a plastic cover for $5. It's help up well. Handy. Durable. Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viktor Posted May 7, 2001 Author Share Posted May 7, 2001 point taken on the snow creek topo, caveman. It needs to be more legible. sorry about the jeff comment. just a weak attempt at humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vkaspar Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 viktor, any updated info will be good, we all appreciate the time and effort you put into your work. I don't mind the drawings, I think an author can present more information with a topo than with crag shots: the crag shots help in overall orientation, but do nothing to help make out features on the route of interest like fixed gear, RFC, LFC, size of cracks etc. Perhaps a happy balance is crag shots for an overview of the area, then topos for specifics. I don't want to cart a large book around, so smaller the better. I think excellent examples of the size I am thinking are the more East-coast guides on Adirondacks (Don Mellor) and the Gunks. For some reason, all the PNW guides (Smith Rock, Nelson/Potterfield,Beckey,Smoot's etc) that have been published in the last ten years are published in a larger format that is not handy to just throw into a day pack. Thanks for the Duty-Warrior link-up idea! ------------------ safe climbing! vkaspar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoker Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 Viktor A word of thanks on the guide book. It has been the source of countless days of climbing. My partner and I both send our gratitude. As far as the drawings go, I have gotten used to the scale and find them as good or better than a photo. We have yet to lose any real amount of time on the rock id'ing routes. As far as the book falling apart mine did but I took it to work and drilled 3 holes along the binder and swaged cable to keep it together (cost me nothing) Smoker [This message has been edited by Smoker (edited 05-07-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolanr Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 Getting lost is half the fun...right on. The best day I ever had at Frenchman Coulee (off topic, I know, sorry) we forgot the guide book entirely and spent the whole time eyeballing routes and doing what looked like fun. Never knew the names of the routes or what they were rated and it worked out fine. Not to diminish the importance and usefullness of guide books. I tip my hat to those that put in the time and effort to publish them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viktor Posted May 8, 2001 Author Share Posted May 8, 2001 I am gearing up for a new guidebook to Leavenworth probably by early 2003. If anyone has some input I'd love to hear it. New routes especially, opinions too, but hold the death threats, please. By the way, if Condor Buttress has too many bolts for you, may I suggest a 7-pitch link-up that goes up Duty Dome and Warrior Wall. Heart of Gold is a 4-pitch slab easily visible from the road. It wanders up some pretty nice rock to the top of Duty from where you can jump on Prime Rib 3 pitches to the top of Warrior. You can walk/scramble off either climb. The pitches are 5.8,5.5,5.10-,5.9+,5.9,5.10b,5.9. Nice outing and bring a small rack. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 Hey why don't you make some new readable good topos? Or take pictures of the crags? A personal opinion and not to be taken personally is that the topos are way sub standard drawings. And what is the deal with the book binding falling apart? I like the old POS white book better. Look at Jeff Smoot's Washington Rock Climbs book!! Now that is a grade A Perfecto examle of a good book. I like the ideas of photos of the crags with overlays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 I sure hope you don't give Easter Overhang two skulls this time around. It's no sport climb, but there is no way it deserves two skulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 Vik, You really need to fix the topos on the pitches connecting the Iconoclast dihedral with Library Ledge. It is grossly misleading; indicating a 5.10c single bolt face climbing runnout. It is any thing but this; and is contributing to many persons avoiding this classic route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viktor Posted May 8, 2001 Author Share Posted May 8, 2001 AlpineK, check the book. Easter Overhang has 2 stars (should be 3) but no skulls. Zup? Thanks for the iconoclast beta, duly noted and will be fixed. Thanks and keep 'em coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 Viktor Kozloff, Your description of NE Route of Easter tower being a chimney is incorrect. It is a nasty moss filled crack that leans right with a few rusted out pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_e Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 The biggest complaint as other have mentioned is the guide book size. I don't understand why the guides in WA are so huge. The guide books back east are small enough to take on a climb. We would even drill a hole in the upper left corner and put some cord through it so it can be clipped on a harness. I've even seen guide books pre-drilled for this purpose. That's my, $.02 - Thanks for your work Viktor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Viktor, Thanks for the work done and to be done. Will you include further off the road stuff Like Bridge Creek Wall and Jupiter Rock? The stuff thats easily accessible can get a bit crowded as our sport has become more popular. Maybe you could come up with a symbol for "girlfriend" routes?!? I've only been climbing for a dozen years and have just about been to all the areas in the last one. Please more new areas. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Viktor, you should go back to your older skull graphic,(white guidebook) it is better than the new one. And maybe spread the stars around a bit to Icicle routes put up by people other than yourself? Are you the same Vic Kramar that put up all those routes in Kelowna in the early 80's? I vote for including all those crags like the Strayhorn and Non-wall too, they're not in the Beckey guide and there is no beta on them AT ALL. Even just a vague line and a grade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Put Classic Crack back to 5.8 too!!!! It's way easier than Canary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Drumeister to the rescue with godo words of experience! Thanks on that routes other than you put up part too. I found a lot of climbs that are good but one or 2 stars. Maybe just note classics and that is it....? NO way CCrack is 5.9 either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viktor Posted May 9, 2001 Author Share Posted May 9, 2001 Thanks again. I'd like to be more objective on the stars but it's kinda tough. I'll hear people rave about some climb that was just awesome and then someone else will tell me it's a pile. I can add my own opinion but it's not always the consensus. If anyone is interested in helping me out send me a private message. I can forward a route list and y'all can note your star and skull opinions and send it back. It may be more fun to just keep posting when you feel an injustice has occured. A friendly debate could help narrow things down. Many climbs with no stars just means I don't know. I'm not hauling my lard-ass up too many desperates these days anyway so I would appreciate any input as always. Yeah, I lived in Kelowna back then and put in a route or 2. And Classic is 5.8 I guess, a long standing argument. Let's hear more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Something I want to see MORE of in the new guidebook is more of that classic Kramar-speak like "These strange critters have been found to hunker down in nooks and crannies" describing bats and owls, I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 At what point do skulls get transformed into stars??? Hey Viktor Kozzloff I would fill out a thingy you mention. I got ideas already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Bourne Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 my favorite is "much ballyhooed overhanging crack of infamy". . . good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viktor Posted May 11, 2001 Author Share Posted May 11, 2001 anyone know how I can post a word file that y'all can download and add your comments to? I can e-mail one too if I had your address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Webmaster let us get the ball rollin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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