faster_than_you Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Running from the police will now be executing offense in GB... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster_than_you Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Wow, they have the second amendment over in England too? That's cool. They don't. But we do, and it's good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 We know way too little information on this to speculate. My guess is: The officers in question were authorized by superiors to kill if they felt that the subject was putting the public into mortal danger. Alternate question: If I felt I were sitting on the train next to a suicide bomber, and I killed him, under what conditions would that fall under self-defense? Only if he indeed was a suicide bomber or having such an appearance that the vast majority of the public would agree on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 You should be a detective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 ...watching the detectives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 yeah .. that's me ... "fucking stupid" .... having lost a friend in 9/11 does that to you It does that to some people. Several friends lost people, they haven't changed into hate mongers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Everyone hates something. Some hates have broader support than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulB Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I think the British public has the right to an explanation. The Mayor of London appears to have given it here. "If you are dealing with someone who might be a suicide bomber, if they remain conscious they could trigger plastic explosives or whatever device is on them," Livingstone said. "Therefore overwhelmingly in these circumstances it is going to be a shoot-to-kill policy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Of course they can only shoot someone who "might" be a suicide bomber. You can only prove someone "is" a suicide bomber after they have blown themselves and everyone else in the neighborhood up. It's pointless to shoot the little bits afterward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireneo_Funes Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Any Pakistani with a backpack "might" be a suicide bomber. The NYC cops who murdered Amadou Diallo thought he "might" have a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraysovereign Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Oops... sorry 'bout that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal_Con Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Guess thats what happens if you have a Texans Poodle for PM nice to see all you guys who we so quick to cheer it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotzen Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Any Pakistani with a backpack "might" be a suicide bomber. This poor guy wasn't even Middle Eastern. He was Brazilian. Jeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 This poor guy wasn't even Middle Eastern. He was Brazilian. Jeez. Melanin = Terrorist. Get with the fucking program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crux Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 The mentally ill person who wanders the hot summer streets fits the profile of a suicide bomber: They both wear heavy clothing, appear markedly distressed, and are especially paranoid about strange pursuants who wield handguns with silencers... Accidents happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Guess thats what happens if you have a Texans Poodle for PM nice to see all you guys who we so quick to cheer it Nice to see how you are so quick to tie a Brit law enforcement issue to GW and Texas. Guess that's what happens when your hatred of something-or someone-is so complete that it defines your very being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraysovereign Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Guess thats what happens if you have a Texans Poodle for PM nice to see all you guys who we so quick to cheer it Nice to see how you are so quick to tie a Brit law enforcement issue to GW and Texas. Guess that's what happens when your hatred of something-or someone-is so complete that it defines your very being. Yeah, I'm with FW on this one. It's more like: "I guess that's what happens when everyone's nerves are wound up tight as piano wires, waiting for someone to try to blow up a train or a bus, and right in the middle of it all some guy starts behaving exactly the way you might expect him to behave if he was going to try to blow up a train or a bus." Yes, it was a bad scene, and nobody likes to see the police killing innocent people. But given the environment in London these last couple of weeks, I'll be the last person on earth to second-guess those bobbies. They did what they felt they had to do, and each of them doubtless feels like a total piece of shit as a result. If this was some backwoods police force made up of weekend warriors and Dirty Harry Wannabes, maybe I'd view this a little differently. But Scotland Yard doesn't exactly have a reputation for senseless gunplay and a "shoot first, cover-up later" attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireneo_Funes Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? RIP Jean Charles de Menezes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 It is interesting to note that holding the american public hostage with fear and false pretenses of "security" is more acceptable than making statements of "we are not afraid" and following that up with aggresive shoot-to-kill policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Jesus, that's so fucking stupid I can't believe you're serious. yeah .. that's me ... "fucking stupid" .... having lost a friend in 9/11 does that to you Having a friend die on 9/11 allows you to be a fucking idiot? Well, based on the reports of this guy not even being connected with the terrorist attacks you should certainly feel like a fucking idiot, jackass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster_than_you Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 It seems surprising that people are making excuses for the "shoot first" policy. If this is the case, the terrorist might actually be winning. Below article describes how things aren't so smooth in NYC. Terror scare rattles city BY TAMER EL-GHOBASHY, TONY SCLAFANI, WARREN WOODBERRY JR. and DAVE GOLDINER DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS New York was fear city yesterday as heavily armed police swarmed a double-decker bus packed with tourists in Times Square and later shut down Penn Station after an irate passenger said he had a bomb. In a dramatic sign of the city's edginess since the London transit bombings, cops evacuated buildings, shut midtown streets and forced about 60 terrified tourists to march off the double-decker bus, with their hands up, in the heart of Broadway. Cops in riot gear handcuffed a group of apparently harmless South Asian-looking men with British accents after a jittery tour bus worker reported they seemed suspicious. The men were forced to kneel on the sidewalk, with their hands bound behind their backs, between 50th and 51st Sts. in front of the Winter Garden theater on a sunny summer Sunday with the city packed with tourists. "People were really scared," said Jill Sully, 29, of Saskatoon, Canada. "There were sharpshooters with guns pointed toward our bus." "I was scared out of my mind," said another passenger, Amanda Pesanello, 20, of Coventry, R.I. "We don't have things like this in Rhode Island." The dramatic faceoff on Broadway came just days after the NYPD ratcheted up security after the July 7 and July 21 London transit bombs and began searching bags in the subway. It also came after an apparently innocent man was killed Friday by London cops who mistook him for a fleeing terrorist. The five men in yesterday's incident quickly were freed after cops determined they were tourists - not terrorists. "We just want to clear our heads of the whole thing," one of the men told the Daily News. "We were humiliated enough." "We just want to go," added another. The scare unfolded about 11:30 a.m. after a Gray Line sightseeing bus worker told the driver some of the passengers getting aboard appeared suspicious. "I was definitely frightened from the beginning," said the driver, Mohammed Stout, 43, of the Bronx. "That's human nature." A Gray Line dispatcher called 911 and told cops the men had backpacks and their pockets "stuffed" - a possible warning sign of suicide bombers, said NYPD spokesman Paul Browne. By the time the bus neared Times Square, cops carrying heavy weapons decided to cordon off Broadway and stop the vehicle, a decision police officials defended as appropriate. Bus passenger Kathy Arrigo, 45, of White Plains, said most of the tourists initially laughed off the show of force. But the mood turned edgier as the cops kept the big red bus there for nearly 30 minutes. Fear grew when cops ordered everyone to put their hands up and walk off the bus - leaving their bags to be searched. "You want to talk about real terror?" said Arrigo's husband, Robert. "There were two little girls with their parents who were just terrified. They were crying uncontrollably." Cops raced into a McDonald's nearby and told workers to shut down the place and get out as fast as they could. "The cops just came in and said to evacuate the building and to run," said McDonald's employee Catherine Melendez. Police eventually gave the allclear and the tourists were ushered into a nearby Applebee's restaurant for lunch. They later got back on a Gray Line bus to continue their tour. Meanwhile, about 12:15 p.m., Penn Station was paralyzed when a disgruntled passenger, identified as Raul Claudio, 43, of the Bronx, walked up to a ticket counter, put his suitcase on the counter and declared he had a bomb, authorities said. The contents of the suitcase proved harmless. The man was detained, and was to be charged with making a terroristic threat and falsely reporting an incident. Hundreds of passengers were forced to evacuate the terminal and thousands more were delayed when Amtrak, commuter railroad and subway service was frozen for more than an hour. "What can you do?" shrugged Dan Lindgren, 46, of Arlington, Va. "It's the times we live in." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Oops... sorry 'bout that. Oops...is right. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4713753.stm Turns out the guy ran because his Visa may have expired. And the terrorist house he was seen leaving....was a block of flats. Kinda like you or me leaving a mega apartment building and immediately being a suspect just because we live on the third floor and some dillrods in the basement are cooking up bombs/meth/kiddie-porn/u-name-it. Lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster_than_you Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 SHOT SEVEN TIMES IN HEAD Brazilian electrician Jean Charles de Menezes was shot eight times by anti-terror police at Stockwell Tube station. An inquest opened into the death of the 27-year-old at Southwark Coroner's Court heard he was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder. The details of his death have been confirmed by the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Eye-witnesses to the shooting last week spoke of hearing around five shots. His cousin Alex Pereira has said his family may sue the police, who mistakenly thought he was a terror suspect. Asked if the family was taking legal action, he said: "They have to pay for that in many ways, because if they do not, they are going to kill many people, they are going to kill thousands of people. They just kill the first person they see, that's what they did." The 28-year-old added: "They killed my cousin, they could kill anyone." A police chief defended the "shoot to kill" policy as a last resort. Chris Fox, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, said: "We have a series of tactics which range from disruption, to the very, very final moment when you have to shoot and the aim is to prevent the criminal or suspect causing harm to other people." He said that a new range of tactics had been set up in response to the threat posed by suicide bombers. Shooting at the body would not always incapacitate a bomber enough to stop him detonating explosives, and could even set off a device, he said. Police would always issue a warning before shooting, he added. He said: "They challenge repeatedly because they do not want to shoot." Mr de Menezes had been working legally in Britain for three years after moving here from Brazil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Today UK Police used a Taser on one of the real bombers. I suppose they figured the info he had on the rest of the cell was too valuable to blow away with 7 headshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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