Bush on TV

[archenemy]

i am not ... putting anything up anything

 

we figured that out a long time ago

 

Post of the Day

[glassgowkiss]

no, this one is:

I only use helium so I can give a better nobber later.

 

 

is that true?

 

 

Yes, it infellates the ego of the nobbee.

[Peter_Puget]

ChucK - Although I didn't watch the speech...I am still pissed off how we were lied to.

 

Check it out: Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton, Charles Schumer, Chris Dodd, John Kerry, John Edwards, Joe Biden and Jay Rockefeller all voted for the October 11, 2002 congressional joint resolution authorizing the president, on his discretion, to go to war.

 

Exceprts from that document =>

 

"Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq:

 

"Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terroist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;

 

"Whereas the attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, underscored the gravity of the threat posed by the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist organizations ...

 

When will they hang their heads in shame. Come the revolution.....

[mattp]

 

You are right, they were pathetic not to stand up to that B.S. 'cause I'm pretty sure they, too, knew it was bunk.

[glassgowkiss]

well fuck it. join us mattp talking about "what's for dinner"

[cj001f]

Check it out: Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton, Charles Schumer, Chris Dodd, John Kerry, John Edwards, Joe Biden and Jay Rockefeller all voted for the October 11, 2002 congressional joint resolution authorizing the president, on his discretion, to go to war.

So PP -

Has anyone ever said what intelligance the Senators were shown? Was it the same cooked up intelligance they showed everybody else? Because that stuff was pretty damning. Of course it was entirely false, but.....

[mattp]

cj -

 

Much of that "damning" intelligence was widely reported to be false at the time, though it got more "play" in foreign press than our own. The Uranium processing tubes, for example, were said by experts to be unusable for that purpose; this was public information. The day after Powell's speech, the press went to the site of the "training camp" on the Iran border and there was nothing there. This, too, was in the news. The yellow cake uranium, etc. etc. etc.

 

Yes, much of this came out after the resolution PP refers to was adopted but I don't think there is much reason to believe the senators were shown any convincing intelligence -- they simply did the political calculation and concluded that it would cost them votes if they resisted and they could blame it on Bush if things later went as everybody knew they would.

 

This doesn't make them responsible for Bush's war, though. Merely complicit.

[Fairweather]

fairweather- once again you just show us how fucking bumb stupid and uneducated redneck you are. there is no point in arguing with someone who has no idea about the subject. period. SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DOLT!

 

Glassgow, if you don't moderate your tone in future replies I will snap you like a fucking twig. In the meantime, please wipe that venomous foam from the hole where sound eminates from your face and share with us that postal service employee wisdom you possess on matters related to this region.

 

Better yet; just STFU.

[cj001f]

Matt-

Those were the public intelligance documents. Supposedly there were other, classified, documents.

[mattp]

Not that I'd like to be seen as defending Glasgow, Fairweather, but I think you are nobody to talk when it comes to "venomous foam."

 

Rather than fling the poo, how 'bout you show us what a smart guy you are and tell us how he's wrong?

[mattp]

cj - if there were anything with any substance or validity to it, don't you think we'd have seen some of it leaked by now?

[Fairweather]

Is anybody else looking forward to watching the President tonight? What's it going to be?

 

Stay the course ... freedom is on the march ... the chickens who wage the insurgency are beginning to falter ... I never said it was going to be easy... we are more secure now ... and those who question our greatness hold us back?

 

Again, Matt, these words written by you before the president's speech last night.

 

What's the point in engaging thoughtfully here when it is so apparent this shop is full of pre-determined ideas and closed-minded partisans like you?

[prole]

 

 

What's the point in engaging thoughtfully here when it is so apparent this shop is full of pre-determined ideas and closed-minded partisans like you?

 

Yeah, that's brilliant! Let's all sit down, put our pre-concieved notions, biases, knowledge about everything that has occurred during Bush's presidency up to this point aside, watch the speech together, accept everything that's being said as absolutely true and then we'll be able to form some honest, neutral ideas about what's being said. SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DOLT!!!

[mattp]

Fairweather:

 

I was right about 3 out of 5 elements but I missed the central theme of his speech: I didn't expect him to dwell so much on how Iraq was linked to 911. Is that "closed minded," or "only partly correct?"

 

By the way: I agree with you that I don't think we will be able to negotiate with those behind the suicide bombings.

 

Just what DO you think about this Iraq war - I mean, "war on terror," anyway? (I mean, aside from the fact that all of us liberals suck.) Did you find his speech inspiring or reassuring?

[Dave_Schuldt]

SAME OLD FUCKING SHIT.

[ashw_justin]

'Merica,

 

'merica...

 

fuck yeah...

[Fairweather]

 

What's the point in engaging thoughtfully here when it is so apparent this shop is full of pre-determined ideas and closed-minded partisans like you?

 

Yeah, that's brilliant! Let's all sit down, put our pre-concieved notions, biases, knowledge about everything that has occurred during Bush's presidency up to this point aside, watch the speech together, accept everything that's being said as absolutely true and then we'll be able to form some honest, neutral ideas about what's being said. SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DOLT!!!

 

Fuck off, you eight-post, self-proclaimed commie dog.

[cj001f]

Fuck off, you self-proclaimed commie dog.

Would you be so bitter if we all chipped in some $ to get you a BJ?

[JoshK]

Fuck off, you self-proclaimed commie dog.

Would you be so bitter if we all chipped in some $ to get you a BJ?

 

HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAA

 

Best post I have seen in a while.

[Fairweather]

Fairweather:

 

I was right about 3 out of 5 elements but I missed the central theme of his speech: I didn't expect him to dwell so much on how Iraq was linked to 911. Is that "closed minded," or "only partly correct?"

 

By the way: I agree with you that I don't think we will be able to negotiate with those behind the suicide bombings.

 

Just what DO you think about this Iraq war - I mean, "war on terror," anyway? (I mean, aside from the fact that all of us liberals suck.) Did you find his speech inspiring or reassuring?

 

Matt, you have professed your disdain for our actions in Afghanistan, so I think it's fair to say that you are anti-war, period.

 

Was Bush wrong about a good-many things in Iraq? Yes.

 

Did he lie? Unknown.

 

Was the attempted assasination of Bush Sr. justification enough? Yes.

 

Was firing hundreds of times on our patrol aircraft justification enough? Yes.

 

Was Iraq's violation of the original cease-fire agreement enough? Yes.

 

Was the fact that he was a murderous thug justification enough? Maybe. There were certainly plenty of equally deserving candidates.

 

What was official US Govt policy under Clinton re Iraq? The removal of Saddam Hussein.

 

Has the war in Iraq limited our ability to respond to another crisis such as a Chinese agression toward Taiwan or a North Korean provocation in the region? Absolutely. Frankly, I can't believe China hasn't taken advantage of the current situation.

 

Do I believe the 'War on Terror' and the war in Iraq are linked? Not directly.

 

 

Moving forward, (something you seem wholly unwilling to do) it seems to me that those who want us to withdraw NOW from Iraq would be the very same people loudly decrying America's messy exit and the bloodshed that would likely follow. I believe Bush's strategy is correct at this time for these circumstances. You can rehash history all you want regarding the lead-up to this war, which at this point seems to be your only concern, but don't allow your visceral hatred of Bush to shut you out of the debate regarding a solution. Your initial pre-speech post struck me as just such.

 

FYI: While I can think of no Democrat amongst the current crop of carpers I would support, my enthusiasm for Bush is tempered and not without limits. It will evaporate in short order if:

 

Saddam were to escape,

 

His commerce department approves the chinese Unocal takeover,

 

He signs a flag-burning ammendment to our constitution and passes it along to the states.

[Fairweather]

Fuck off, you self-proclaimed commie dog.

Would you be so bitter if we all chipped in some $ to get you a BJ?

 

Your wife just finished that monumental task and didn't charge me a dime. She's on her way home now. Make sure she brushes her teeth and blows her nose before you kiss her goodnight.

[Chaps]

OOOooooo....Fairweather. You fucking wanker. You couldn't find your ass with both hands. Howz your big president now? Ya, he can't even beat off (literally or figuratively) a bunch of Arabs. Peace in the Middle Fucking East my ass. Call me when its over: i.e. never.

[Cobra_Commander]

I think the solution to all our problems is to invade more sandy countries

[mattp]

Fairweather:

 

Looking back tells us a lot about where we're headed. Bush and his guys don't even deny that they used 911 as an excuse to invade Iraq. They only weakly deny that we are there for reasons quite apart from what they've been saying all along. The obvious conclusion is that you can't believe ANYTHING they say about the matter because it is just as likely true as false.

 

The job of the President and his administration is to forumlate a strategy and it is not at all clear that they really have one. Everything we know about this whole business suggests they have not only failed, but actively refused to consider the possible outcome scenarios right from the start.

 

To the greatest extent possible and consistent with any real national security concerns they also have a clear responsibility to level with the American people. Everything we know about the matter shows a constant pattern of flatly refusing to do so.

 

Looking ahead, I can see no reason not to expect more of the same: outright lies and manipulation in support of the blind pursuit of an unstated mission.

 

Our responsibility, as citizens in a Democracy, is to ask questions, think about what they are doing, and to express our opinion about it -- not simply to eat the sugar pills they feed us and go back to sleep.

 

You seem to say "it's OK, I don't care what they've done but I want more of the same." I'd have a lot more respect for you if you'd at least be willing to show some disapproval of how we got into this mess, and to say you'd like to see a national defense policy based on a consideration of real intelligence data and honest discussion. Thus far, your main argument seems to be that those who criticize the President are misguided and deeserve your venomous disdain. Do you think we "hate freedom?"

 

(As to my own idea about what to do now? It seems fairly obvious that we need to get out this mess and that almost certainly means bringing our troups home in -what did Rumsfeld say? 2,4 6, 8, 10 years? I agree with an uncertain timetable. I can't see any scenario where long-term occupation is going to do anything but cause MORE terrorism to be directed at the U.S. and I do not believe that we will be successful in getting the Iraqi army to do our bidding while we remain essentially in control -- without some heavy handed and very costly effort on our part. If we stay there, it will almost certainly continue to be a mess, and in fact immediate and unconditional withdrawal might be a good option if we actually look at the situation honestly. I would like to think that our policy makers are engaged in honest discussion and serious consideration of real intelligence rather than just waiving the American flag and worrying about the next election, but all indications are that Bush and his crew, along with the Democratic leadership, are putting politics way ahead of any strategic planning.)

[cj001f]

Your wife just finished that monumental task and didn't charge me a dime. She's on her way home now. Make sure she brushes her teeth and blows her nose before you kiss her goodnight.

Never believe what homeless hookers tell you Fairweather - they all like to advertise "cj trained" but none have touched the prize. I'm not and never have been married.