bowline in a bight for anchor system?

[Blakej]

I was just thinking that using the bowline in a bight or a triple bowline could be used to tie the belayer and rope directly into the anchorsystem saving a few draw and biners for the climb. Obviously it would be difficult to manipulate the knot to properly equilize the system and would take up potentially valuable rope but does anyone see any reason not too if those are acceptable drawbacks?

edit: forget the triple bowline. Looks like the tail is dependent on the other two loops to maintain its integrety.

Edited March 4, 2005 by Blakej

[pc]

The system works with a bowline on a bight, or a triple bowline. The down side is that if any of the anchor points failed or if the line was cut at an anchor point the system fails.

[Bill_Simpkins]

I use it on trees around a branch or trunk.

Just wrap a large bite around it and tie the bowline.

As far as saving webbing and biners on bolts, you can put each end of a sewn runner through each bolt then bring them back together. Pull the top part down and give just one strand of the top part a half twist. Clip through the hole created by the twist(and make sure to clip the non twisted strand) and the two holes on the ends.

This uses one biner and one sling. Should look like a "V" and is self equalizing. Biner stays clipped to sling if one anchor fails.

 

Better yet, when I have the rope and swinging leads, I just use a self equalizing figure eight. This works good for equalizing 2-3 anchor points with NO webbing. Learn this knot, it's easy and awesome. Although it uses 2-3 biners.

I use the method above when saving biners or just feel like it.

[abalch]

Climbing magazine did a tech tip on using a dog-eared bowline for quick anchoring at sport anchors. You tie into your harnes with about five feet of tail, and tie a double bowline on a bight with the tail. clip that out of the way, and when you get to the anchors, clip each ear to a seperate bolt, and clip a locker to your harness, and clove hitch the rope to adjust the length of the rope between the dog-eared bowline and your harness. I have used this technique a few times on climbs, and it works pretty well.

[Blakej]

"The down side is that if any of the anchor points failed or if the line was cut at an anchor point the system fails."

It was my understanding that each of the two loops in a bowline in a bight were able to hold independently. Therefor if one fails the other should hold as a back up.

[kurthicks]

As far as saving webbing and biners on bolts, you can put each end of a sewn runner through each bolt then bring them back together. Pull the top part down and give just one strand of the top part a half twist. Clip through the hole created by the twist(and make sure to clip the non twisted strand) and the two holes on the ends.

This uses one biner and one sling. Should look like a "V" and is self equalizing.

 

but this anchor isn't redundant. I'd use 2 slings in case one get chopped.

[sobo]

...As far as saving webbing and biners on bolts, you can put each end of a sewn runner through each bolt then bring them back together. Pull the top part down and give just one strand of the top part a half twist. Clip through the hole created by the twist(and make sure to clip the non twisted strand) and the two holes on the ends.

This uses one biner and one sling. Should look like a "V" and is self equalizing...

 

And you also need to remember to make sure the sling is long enough to provide a sufficiently small angle between the bolts and the connection biner to reduce loads on the anchors. You know, the Triangle of Death and all that FOTH rot.

[Bill_Simpkins]

Yes, thanks for adding that. Very important.

[snoboy]

Climbing magazine did a tech tip on using a dog-eared bowline for quick anchoring at sport anchors. You tie into your harnes with about five feet of tail, and tie a double bowline on a bight with the tail. clip that out of the way, and when you get to the anchors, clip each ear to a seperate bolt, and clip a locker to your harness, and clove hitch the rope to adjust the length of the rope between the dog-eared bowline and your harness. I have used this technique a few times on climbs, and it works pretty well.

 

Apologies for bluntness and all, but that sounds retarded to me... Why not just tie the rope to your harness normally and then tie the b-on-a-b when you get to the anchor? it takes all of about 12.73 seconds to tie one. I guess if it works for you that's cool and all...

 

BTW-blake, the b-on-a-b is easy to equalize properly between two points if it is tied as below:

 

[genepires]

There are some really light double runners out there. IMO nothing beats a regular pre-equalized knot anchor with using your rope to anchor too with a clove hitch.

Can you escape the belay when you use the rope as part of the anchor?

If you need to move about, is your bowline system able to allow that?

How fast can you tie this knot (properly and still equalized) compared to my double runner and a overhand knot?

 

The answer to these are why I would forgo using this bowline anchor knot.

[catbirdseat]

Can you escape the belay when you use the rope as part of the anchor?

For this reason and others I prefer the cordellette/webolette. Sure you can build an achor with slings, but it will take more time and fiddling. Cordellettes are fast.

 

If you belay with a redirect off the anchor, and your second get's bonked with a rock, you can quickly rappel down to him and do an assisted rappel from there. If you build the anchor with the rope, good luck.

[layton]

this knot is ez to fuck up so i never use it. takes too long, too much hand-eye-brain co-ordination.

[Blakej]

All good points thanks for the feedback. From what I'm seeing its good to know as a backup technique but probobly not preferable just to save weight.