dxmetal Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 Looking to get a new down jacket for ice cragging/belay. 1) Do I save money and buy a non water resistant down jacket and then wear my shell over it ? 2) What ?? at that cold of temp, it wont be raining anyways, So buy a down jacket a size bigger so you can wear it over all your layers. 3) Bite the bullet and buy Gore dryloft or other water resistant materials (which ?), because you need to wear the down over all your layers (even your shell!). HELP !! Quote
DirtyHarry Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 If you're worried about your puffy gettin wet buy one with synthetic insulation. I've found for day trips down is fine. I'f you're planning on doing multi-day snow / ice climbs good to be on the safe side and get a synthetic. Quote
Alex Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 most people who are ice cragging dont really care much if the jacket gets damp, as you'll be back in the car in a few hours. Additionally, if its wet enough out to wear a hard shell, most people wear their shell under their harness and therefore will wear their puffy only at the belay, over the shell anyway. unless you are climbing locally while its snowing, it just wont be that wet... so my advice is with those 2 things in mind: buy a cheap, functional, "nothing-special", low-profile down or synth puffy. mine is just a marmot down sweater with no hood, its cheap (70$ at the time, 1997?), compressable, trashable, warm enough. Quote
Couloir Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 MHW - Voodoo Belay Jacket; TNF - Redpoint Parka; Wild Things - Belay Jacket: All good...compress nicely...warm when wet...nice and warm when it's really chilly. Quote
Mer Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 I'm glad you asked--down jackets should not be worn in urban areas after memorial day or before labour day, never with white shoes, and always with a hat. They're OK with skirts, but look foolish with shorts. Quote
Dru Posted January 25, 2005 Posted January 25, 2005 They're OK with skirts, but look foolish with shorts. Even in the gym? Quote
slaphappy Posted January 25, 2005 Posted January 25, 2005 1-No 2-Yes 3-If you can afford it. Epic works super well. Quote
Mer Posted January 25, 2005 Posted January 25, 2005 Even in the gym? Definitely wear your down jacket in the gym -- it gives everyone else a good giggle. Particularly fine if you wear it while you belay and accessorize with belay gloves and white athletic socks. Quote
dxmetal Posted January 25, 2005 Author Posted January 25, 2005 What about a hood ??? Should i pay extra for the a jacket with Hood ? Is there any reason why the down jacket should not go inside the shell ?? Dont u get more protection from wind and rain if the down is inside the shell ? I understand that it be too warm to wear down while climbing , Is it just convenience to wrap the down or insulated jacket over all the layers ?? ALso, how can a syntetics insulation be better for alpine ?? is it solely the jacket protection against dampness and wetness ? If so, i might just get synthetic ?? thanks again Quote
Alex Posted January 25, 2005 Posted January 25, 2005 What about a hood ??? Should i pay extra for the a jacket with Hood ? personal preference Is there any reason why the down jacket should not go inside the shell ?? Dont u get more protection from wind and rain if the down is inside the shell ? imagine the scenario: its cold enough to wear a down puffy (which means its -15 C or colder!!!) but wet enough for you to want a shell. which means its snowing like hell. Now. You want to wear puff? imagine taking off shell, getting damp from falling snow melting on warm fleece, put on puff, put on shell which is now also damp on the inside..belay for 30 min...oh time to climb! Take off shell, puff gets wet anyway before you can stuff it in your pack, your underlayers get wet because you didnt have shell on while stuffing puff in pack, now shell is damp some more because your underlayers got damp and it got damp too, put shell back on, oops, got to adjust harness, meanwhile your leader is looking at you from the top of the route like you suck, because while you are doing this extra 5 minutes clothes adjustment, (s)he is freezing ass off. Quote
mattp Posted January 25, 2005 Posted January 25, 2005 Alex is right -- it does not get cold enough around here that you'll be wearing your down jacket all day long or even for substantial parts of the day. You'll use it when you jump out of the heated car and start messing with the gear, or when you stop on the trail, at a belay, or while you take in the view at a summit. Assuming that you are trying to climb something substantial or otherwise trying to generally keep moving toward your goal, all of these times you put on the puffy, it will be coming off relatively quickly and, assuming that your partner(s) also want to get something done, you'll want to do so efficiently. Find a place in your pack that you reserve for stuffing the jacket in and out quickly - just inside the opening end of that zipper near the bottom if you have one, or right on top. If you are standing around camp or something, or maybe if you are at the base of a climb where several climbers are taking turns and you're going to be there for a long time, you may take the time to put the down inside your shell coat. Even wearing the down jacket as an outer layer, I think you want as breathable as possible of a shell fabric (not "waterproof-breathable"). You will get your down wet by putting the jacket on over a sweated out long underwear top or a crusty damp shell coat and the more breathable coats will dry faster. Also, if you are trying to save weight you'll wear it to bed to make a lighter (summer weight) sleeping bag warm enough for your winter overnight, and the fully breathable will not collect moisture as you sleep but the goretex shelled down jacket will. You want a fairly sturdy fabric shell on your jacket if you use it this way and wear it mostly as an outer garment. I have a superlight Feathered Friends down sweater that I am afraid to wear for a belay jacket because I'd rip it if I leaned against an icicle or brushed against a tree branch. Lastly, I'm not convinced that "high quality" (expensive) down is much better for a jacket that you are using in this fashion. I have two midweight down jackets. The cheaper one, probably made from Korean duck feathers or something, seems to hold it's loft when damp better than my more expensive Feathered Friends jacket and I don't worry about wearing it while standing next to a campfire, or for a brief encounter with some nasty brush. They both have their advantages and, in particular, the FF jacket is a much nicer garment and just plain FEELS better -- but used as a "belay jacket" for day trips and for kicking around the campsite, it is not altogether a better jacket than the one that cost half as much. Quote
Stephen_Ramsey Posted January 25, 2005 Posted January 25, 2005 Dxmetal, OK, so you are looking for a parka for "ice cragging". To answer your questions: (1) Ideally, you would want your winter parka to be at least somewhat water resistant, *especially* if you go with a down parka. You might consider getting a parka with an Epic exterior. No, most folks don't wear the shell over the parka, for reasons already stated above. (2) Yes, you want your parka to be somewhat oversized, but not ridiculously so. But, often they are made oversized to begin with, so you may not need to jump up to the "next" size. (3) For "ice cragging" in the lower 48, I personally wouldn't buy a high-end parka unless I had a very specific need. But for alpine ice, or multipitch ice climbing in Canada, I would. (4) Personally, I use a synthetic parka (Wild Things Belay Jacket) for ice belays. Admittedly, it is both expensive and more insulation than many folks would want for the lower 48. But, I still think synthetic is very useful for ice cragging in the Cascades. It (usually ) snows often in the Cascades in winter, and on too many occasions I've been wet and miserable at ice belays in a down parka. If you do decide to go with down, I recommend getting one with a water-resistant exterior. (5) Yes, a hood is quite nice, but only really required if it is really cold. (6) You asked about alpine. Most of the time, I carry a synethetic parka in winter. Although down is lighter per unit of insulating power, I (subjectively) regard synthetic as more "bombproof" insulation for when it is really snowing hard outside. The extra few ounces is good piece of mind, especially if you have to bivy in a storm. Ideally, you could try both (down & synthetic) out and find what works best for you. Feathered Friends is pretty cool about renting down gear, and letting you apply the rental cost towards a subsequent purchase. Just my gumby $0.02... Quote
Couloir Posted January 26, 2005 Posted January 26, 2005 This topic was discussed before. Here is a thread to a decent article that discusses the virtues of a belay jacket: http://www.planetfear.net/climbing/highmountainmag/equipmentnotes/march2004/mar03-2.html Good luck! Quote
dxmetal Posted January 27, 2005 Author Posted January 27, 2005 Can someone explain the significant of this particular jacket please ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ssPageName=WDVW Quote
Alpine_Tom Posted January 27, 2005 Posted January 27, 2005 Hey, didn't you read the description? It's a "rare find!" Quote
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