Alpiners Anonymous: PDX dry tool night

[billcoe]

Johhnnnnnyyyyyyyyy!!! Hola amigo!

 

 

What would it take?

 

 

It's gonna take a social director such as yourself. Who wants to step up and be the liaison with the city and make it all above board, organized and legal?

 

PS, someone else, not me I hate that kind of shit.

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2nd topic, is that phx climb night? Isn't it still 110 degrees at 10 pm there? Sounds sporty.

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Check this: if you hang up a bird house, some random bird will find it post haste. Here's your new route being discussed and none of the bolts have been chopped ...... yet. The jury is still holding it's breath on that one though.

 

I need a TOPO ! That Fucking NOLSE is trying to sandbag me again!

 

I was wondering about that tree as well.

 

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[Cobra_Commander]

The jury is still holding it's breath on that one though.

 

Why would the jury be holding its breath? Don't juries make the decisions? That comment is way out in left park.

[John Frieh]

What I'm thinking is we could work something out with the local boy scout troops and offer to teach the rock climbing merit badge in exchange for them doing volunteer work out there. I'm going to also look into finding out what it takes to get work crews from the sheriff's office out there.

 

I'd just assume do it myself if someone could hook me up with the right tools... industrial sized weed whacker and chain saw. Shouldn't take that long...

 

PHX climb night: it's a dry heat... you get use to it... though I have been buying chalk by the pound Actually we are going to a gym

 

I can't believe there is a car out there... does anyone have a pic of the car? Where is it?

[ivan]

If I get a keg and grub how many people would come out and help out? If not a keg what would it take?

yes to the first, you know the answer to the second

[John Frieh]

I would gladly buy a keg myself (or more) if we could agree on a day. Ivan: my mind isn't as "evolved" as yours... you're going to have to spell it out.

[Cobra_Commander]

yeah I am curious as to what ivan is talking about. I mean hookers and blow are already totally available at rocky butte.

[ivan]

world piece?

 

Cobra Commander - wasn't there some sweet-ass little honey-pot working for your criminal organization? problably hung out w/ destro, he of the manly chest expo...

[Cobra_Commander]

I believe you're referring to the baroness. Exceedingly high maintenance.

[billcoe]

What I'm thinking is we could work something out with the local boy scout troops and offer to teach the rock climbing merit badge in exchange for them doing volunteer work out there. I'm going to also look into finding out what it takes to get work crews from the sheriff's office out there.

 

I'd just assume do it myself if someone could hook me up with the right tools... industrial sized weed whacker and chain saw. Shouldn't take that long...

 

PHX climb night: it's a dry heat... you get use to it... though I have been buying chalk by the pound Actually we are going to a gym

 

I can't believe there is a car out there... does anyone have a pic of the car? Where is it?

 

Whoooo, chain gang, mertit badges, weed wackers and Hookers: U ARE ! DA MAN ! Probably sweep the park and round up the local talent at the same time and get your credit cards back too. Multi-tasking! Great ideas! Lets see if we can round up a clown car and give out free ballons to the kids! (I have a "Clown Car" thread going on Spray BTW)

 

Seriously, you are an "ideas guy, Chuck", good ideas!

 

I'll take a pic of that car for you. I haven't seen it, but Hugh mentioned it earlier too. Think it's down by Silver Bullet.

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Cobra *iain* Cough *iain* cough:

Why would the jury be holding its breath? Don't juries make the decisions? That comment is way out in left park.

 

Who really knows, and no confusing the issue with facts around here Iain, this is the internet.

 

BTW, I believe that left field thing is already inhabited by a giant named Ivan. Course he's way out in left field, so there might still be room for some of us too.

 

Regards:

 

B

 

PS to the Mods, can you do something about this, - change of thread title is a clear underhanded attempt to increase views and page counts to get the free tent in the free tent contest.

 

Huh? I did that? Uhhh, sorry.

Edited June 7, 2006 by billcoe

[John Frieh]

jackpot

 

Bill: did the college express interest in helping remove brush?

[billcoe]

jackpot

 

Bill: did the college express interest in helping remove brush?

 

Cough cough , I didn't ask.

[John Frieh]

Call 'em back or send another letter or better email. If you email CC me on it.

[hemp22]

So there's a shiny new bolted route on silver bullet? I'll have to get over there today after work and get the tick on that one before the infamous rocky butte mystery chopper shows up...

 

and the car might be a nice added touch to the area - it's always nice to be able to belay from the the comfort of a car seat.

 

seriously though, if you guys are going to clear some brush and stuff - be ready for an ongoing project. with how quickly things grow around here, you could probably practically decimate the place, and all the shrubbery would be back by next spring.

But if you're looking for tools & whatnot to assist with the project, contact the access fund to see if they can help. At the last couple Rocky Butte adopt-a-crags, I think all they did was clean up litter. But at the last couple Broughton's adopt-a-crags, they showed up with weed-whackers, shovels, picks, etc for doing some trail maintenance and clearing a lot of blackberries & stuff. the access fund could probably hook you up with the necessary tools.

(on a related note, i believe the broughton's adopt-a-crag is tentatively scheduled for September 3rd 9:00-2:00 this year)

[ivan]

i must admit doing slave labor in the midst of the summer would remind me too much of my day's of my father's plantation - fall or early spring, when everything's pretty well died back seems best

[John Frieh]

Enter round up stage left

 

Edited June 7, 2006 by John Frieh

[billcoe]

 

and the car might be a nice added touch to the area - it's always nice to be able to belay from the the comfort of a car seat.

 

Yup, it might be a sweet touch. we can take a couple of TV's from the base and plug them in, a junker cooler we can find down in the sh*t pile.....the whole this has amazing potential as a second home as well for visiting climbers who are dirtbagging on the road. We can refer to it as the box, like in "Cool Hand Luke". Maybe we bolt the sh*t out of the car to keep it from moving and we'll see if it gets chopped eh?

 

The tree that fell over gets cut up for firewood and if the fire gets out of hand none of our lazy asses has to be singing spirituals on the plantation trying to hack underbrush.

 

Love it.

 

PS, to all: complaints 'bout the bolt spacing or lack of bolts will only gain you penalty slack and a day locked in the box.

 

I heard some old fat guy (not me, another old fat guy) complaining about "sport climbers" the other day, WFT is with that? I'm thinking the box might have uses for other complainers and whinners too.

 

BTW, none of the bolts @ silver bullet (and Vidceo) have been monkeed that I've seen, heard or read here, and they are looking like old rusty crap. Nice project would be to re-do them with stainless steel IMO. Far as that goes, almost from day 1, there have been 3 SETS of bolts on Mike P's other nice route further down the way, never touched. I usually just clip the top set as backups for the lower set. Whooo Hooo, 4 bolt anchor. All of them have been there untouched for 20 years or so.

 

The Bolts in question people seem to have issues with seem to be retro bolts where there have not been bolts before. I retroed some on Dream weaver and the route next to it 2-4 years ago (studs ends still visible) and they lasted @ 2-3 weeks. I would have asked Mike Pajunas (the FA) for permission, but haven't seen him for like 10-15 years. My bad. I've since met some guys out there who were adamant that adding bolts to a route that has NEVER had bolts for 20-30 years (ie retro-bolting) is a chickenshit and f*ed up thing to do. I did not recount my expeiences with Dream Weaver....understandably.

 

As of last weekend Glenns were still there, as were the new ones on Bill's Buttress. Those are new routes though.

 

I'm sure somebody will step forward pissed off for some other reason soon enough, proving only that can't please everyone and talking to climbers is like herding cats.

 

Edited to add, would a discussion amoungst all PDX climbers, maybe in some kind of Viking Drinking Hall, about what they want the Butte to looks like as a climbing area in 5 years be in order? Or is that too much acrimony and divergent views for 1 room?

Edited June 7, 2006 by billcoe

[hemp22]

i didn't mean to come across as if i were criticizing the spacing of bolts on the new routes. I was just being a tad sarcastic because it's annoying when some of those anchors disappear.

anyway, i'll have to wait to check out the new routes until a later date, looks like i'm off to fight traffic and try to make it to broughton instead.

Edited June 7, 2006 by hemp22

[billcoe]

i didn't mean to come across as if i were criticizing the spacing of bolts on the new routes.

 

It's all good hemp. I was just teasing. Might have forgot to add that smiley face.

[syklone]

The car is located above and climbers left of Bite the Bullet, and its just the firewall, so no seats for lounging. Too bad, it'd be cool to belay from a comfy seat.

 

Bill: I'm all for rebolting those shitty rusty things that seem to liter the place. I'd even throw down some good old fashioned cash to buy good SS stuff. As long as its existing stuff that is being upgraded, I don't think that people should have any problem with the new gear, I hope.

 

Just a general rant on bolts at rocky though: All this chopping that goes on just seems to stop any improvements. People are now forced to stop, ask questions, get opinions and whatnot before they replace a 1/4 thats older than me? WTF? That just straight up safety common sense. I was soloing Blueberry Jam on Monday, and when I was rapping over the edge to find anchors to rig a TR, I saw the thickest fucking bolts ever. They had been chopped. Must have been 5/8 or 3/4. They were HUGE. I saw why they were chopped too. An OLD pin and semi-good 3/8 blot were below and to the left a few feet, as listed in the Olsen Guide. These huge bolts would have made rigging a TR easier from above, and replaced crappier gear nearby. I dont get it. I ended up rigging on the bolt and pin, with a loonnggg cordlette to a tree nearby to back things up. Somebody tried to make the anchor more SAFE, and instead the bolts were chopped in favor of what? Tradition? Sorry thats just plain BS. If you want to argue that putting extra bolts on an existing route is bad ethics, fine do that. There is some merit there. But anchors are there to be solid, and they need replaced over time with better, safer gear. If the FA put in 1/4's you wouldn't replace it with 1/4's, would you? And if there is a pin that's going to pop one of these days, put in a new set of anchors that will last 50 years.

 

John: I'd be all for participating in the brush clearing fun times. I've actually grown fond of the damn place in the past few months.

[Knottygirl]

I would definately help out with cleaning the place.

Umm, I think my friend and I cleaned up most of those computers tossed off the top of Silver Bullet...two years ago???

[John Frieh]

How does this sound? Let's do one day a month for the next few months a clean up the butte day. If we can find a day that works for everyone (might be difficult) we can just head out and go crazy. I will gladly provide refreshments and cook... whatever it takes.

 

If I don't already have your email address and/or phone number and you wish to be involved in Rocky Butte general improvements (brush cleaning, garbage, etc etc) PM it to me.

 

If you have contacts in the city, local volunteer groups, etc etc that you think could be levered to assist give me a shout also.

 

If you plan on replacing some bolts talk to Bill or myself for guidance on size/material/etc and I will gladly come out and help you drill holes and/or loan you my drill.

 

And I just gotta say: big thanks to everyone for making PDX a great place to live and more importantly climb!

[billcoe]

Hi Troy: you were clipping stuff on another route, the fixed lead protection (not an anchor) for the stiff route to the left of Blueberry. Blueberry has some great places to put hexes, cams and nuts at the top and bolts are not needed. Any anchor that you build there with any combination of pro is both bomber and set up perfect for rapping with the pro above your waist. Fuenos was laughing at me last year cause despite the fact that each one is totally bomber, I had like 5 points all equalized for my anchor. Major overkill. Just remember to have some gear for it. I might be there tonight if you want to join us. (work dependant for me)

 

As far your point that adding bolts will make any anchor safe, it was pointed out to me that the opposite is in fact the case. Now I seem to notice that it's really true about everywhere I look out there. Without a couple of bolts, the first thing anybody will do at Rocky Butte is tie a piece of webbing or rope to a tree, safely back from the edge of the cliff. Then they go to the cliff edge and set up or build their anchor, already tied in so they do not fall. The webbing will be clipped last to the anchor as added pro to the anchor before they rap down. With bolts in place, notice that most beginners just head directly for those, clip and go. No back up sling tied to a tree. Look at how common this is at the 5.7 flakey old man on Video for example. Every one of those beginners has needlessly exposed themselves to a near death experience trying to balance out, reach out over the yawning void to grab the chains and clip 2 rusty bolts while trying not to grease off that steep hard packed dirt. Yet there is a tree right there which only occasionally is used to tie in before the person clips the chains. I find it unbelievable every time I see it and now that I've thought about it I seem to see it pretty frequently.

 

In 2004 somebody did die right there doing just that. The news reported that 10 people fell off the cliff last year. Most were climbers going for the bolt anchors in the video and silver bullet areas. There was one guy which the news reported claimed that somebody else’s dog jumped out at him and scared him off the cliff, but I suspect he fell into that group which was going for the chains and lost it as well.

 

It’s not uncommon for unprotected climbers to grease off the cliff, and it doesn’t seem to be discriminating between skill and inexperience either. I once carried out one of the most skilled and experienced climbers in Oregon directly to the hospital when he slipped out there. (Broken wrist, ruptured spleen, punctured lung, shock: that kind of thing).

 

Anyhoooo……. I’d like to see no bolts added or chopped at breakfast cracks or Blueberry area as they have not traditionally had them and do not need them, but then, I’d like to see the crack whores, thieves and meth heads go elsewhere too and that doesn’t appear to be happening either.

 

As far as replacing the old rusty crap with new, that might be pretty hard as ¼ bolts are pretty much not in any anchors out there. Maybe we can enlist Josephs help in styling the old stuff out and putting in new, he’s got all the gear for it and the experience too. We should go 100 percent stainless for sure given how wet it is around here. For 3/8 diameter Type 316 stainless chain I recently paid @ $11 a foot. I currently have some 316 SS wedge anchors. The 316 chain proofs out higher than regular 304 (18-8) Stainless. Maybe we should do 1 or 2 of the worst anchors, step back and see what happens.

 

I nominate doing that Flakey Old man pitch first. We might consider moving them closer to the edge so they are easier to get and then digging to make that dirt level so we don’t lose someone else. I like the idea of using the 316 stainless bolts and chains, but it’s damn expensive.

 

I've put some chains on the buttress recently and have thought about it being less safe, but what can you do if people don't want to clip off before stepping right out to the cliff?

 

The brush removal may not be as welcome with everybody out there. Certainly not with the bottle tossers and people throwing the used condoms down on the ground, I have picked up 2 condoms at that spot where Dream Weaver meets Bill’s Buttress area in the last couple of weeks. What the hell are people doing up there anyway to be throwing used condoms down in a public area ? Pretty disgusting. In either case, we should only do real brush removal with the cities blessing. From Johns link, it looks like their interests diverge from us a bit, as they appear to be interested in seeing only the non-native species disappear, like the ivy. But we'll see, we should discuss it with them. I don't want to pull Ivy all day just to get a bit of the brush thinned out. There was a picture of some Roundup posted earlier, which might keep Ivan off of the plantation. Don't spray any on trees of course.

 

John, I love your idea of doing the cleanup regularly, but I’ll probably feel like Ivan does on the plantation. Time is a big premium to me, which is why I often wind up stuck climbing at the butte instead of a real climbing area, cause I can bang out a solid pump in a couple of hours or less and get back to work on Saturday or be a parent. So I would probably commit to less time cleaning than most, but I think it’s an awesome idea.

 

Knottygirl, FYI there was another video monitor tossed off Video Bluff earlier this year. Makes you wonder where all this stuff is coming from.

 

I’ll touch base with the college today and see what they might want to bring to the table. There is a sign next to the road there that says Mazamas and Access fund are doing the “adopt a road”. Maybe contact them?

[Couloir]

Sounds like we need to organize a mass bush burn/slash party and clean things up...

 

If I get a keg and grub how many people would come out and help out? If not a keg what would it take?

I'd do almost anything for a keg. Count me in!

[John Frieh]

Around 3 pmish (give or take). If you want to rock climb many of the DT routes can be free climbed so you are welcome to join us. If you can't make it till later in the day shoot me a PM and maybe we can work something out.

 

PM or call me if attending

[scheissami]

I may try to make it if I get out of work in time (5-ish).