klenke Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Can you be more specific with where your destination is? "McCallister Glacier" does not jog my memory bank(s). [ 10-14-2002, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: klenke ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Isn't the Mcallister glacier near Eldorado. North of the Insporation or am I being dump again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj221 Posted October 14, 2002 Author Share Posted October 14, 2002 McAllister Glacier is near Eldorado Peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfort Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 The McAllister glacier doesn't sound like the right place for "non-climbers who are more interested in hikes". I don't think there are any "hikes" there. Unless you're talking about the Cascade Pass area in general. You'd probably have more luck posting on a hiking forum, like http://nwhikers.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkemp Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Boy, accessing McA Gl directly will be a tough hike. If you dont know the area you should begin with something much easier. yeah, Eldorado via Eldo Glacier/Inspiration Glacier is a mighty fine snow climb. Not that its easy - the approach is quite strenuous. As far as hiking guidebooks, I like Dont Waste Your Time in the North Cascades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkemp Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 quote: The McAllister glacier doesn't sound like the right place for "non-climbers who are more interested in hikes". I don't think there are any "hikes" there. Right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 In my estimation (now that I remember where it is), the McAllister Glacier is in the most trail-inaccessible area of Eldorado Peak--the north side. The definitive guide book used by all Northwest climbers is Fred Beckey's Cascade Alpine Guide (CAG). Actually, he has put out three volumes of the guide--each representing a certain section of the Washington Cascades. The one you would want is Volume 2: Stevens Pass to Rainy Pass. This is the green book, whose latest printing is 1996. There are other guide books out there. Some popular ones are those put out by twins Bob and Ira Spring (100 Hikes in Washington, et al.; not for technical climbing) and Harvey Manning (don't know much about his books). There is also a book out by Peggy Goldman. All of these are probably available on Amazon.Com. Search the web. Non-climbers also can and do make good use of CAG, as Fred has put a lot of effort into access descriptions (i.e., access trails). Fred does not say much about the McAllister Glacier, but here is what he says about McAllister Creek (which drains the glacier): "McAllister Creek valley has a passable but brushy trail that can currently [circa 1989] be followed about 1 mile into the valley. The valley is a wilderness jungle: unless the trail is cleared and extended, expect slow progress...The valley remains uniquely low to near the glacier tongue at about 4,000 ft." (1989 Printing; 2nd Edition) Note that the glacier is at least 8 miles up the creek valley, so this would mean a heck of a lot of heinous bushwhacking. There are some good photos of the McAllister Glacier and surrounding nunatak summits in CAG. The McAllister Glacier is in a pretty remote area. Perhaps this is what you want, but non-climbers (hikers) will probably find getting to that area quite an ugly chore--especially those who have never partaken in a notorious Northwest Buchwhack. Any foray into the boscage of a lowland valley on the wetter side of the Cascade Crest does not provide much in views except large trees towering above and around you. And sometimes the cage is so thick you can't even see the trees. The alternative of approaching the McAllister Glacier is from the Eldorado Peak Route on the south side of the peak, but it's no bargain either. This route is steep and even climbers tend to complain about it--starting from the periodically dangerous river crossing on a log at the bottom. The route later crosses the Inspiration Glacier. Then there is the Tepeh Towers serrated ridge crest that separates the glaciers. Some highly popular "trail" hikes in the vicinity of Eldorado Peak are: Hidden Lakes Peak (4 miles, 3,600 ft of gain), Cascade Pass/Sahale Arm (3.7 miles, 1,800 ft of gain/+ another 0.7 miles up to Sahale Arm), and Boston Basin (~3 miles and ~2,600 ft of gain). You might also try contacting the Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest [http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mbs | Darrington office: (360) 436-1155] or North Cascades National Park [http://www.nps.gov/noca/ | Marblemount office: (360) 873-4500] for information. [ 10-19-2002, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: klenke ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj221 Posted October 15, 2002 Author Share Posted October 15, 2002 I’m planning a trip to the Cascades for next summer. I will be camping/climbing in the McAllister Glacier Area. The group that I’m with will include non-climbers who are more interested in hikes. What is the best guide book for providing hiking information for this area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 jj- I tried that as my first trip into the North Cascades, thinking that on the map it looked like some real cool wilderness and also thinking that, because I had hiked "off trail" in the Tetons and the Sierras, I could drag my friends "off trail" in the Cascades. We went in via Newhalem Creek and made it to Stout Lake before we lost momentum. We had a great trip, and climbed some fun rock scrambles on three little peaks south of Stout Lake, but I still haven't been to the McAllister Glacier. I bet you could get into upper McAllister creek from there more easily than hiking directly up McAllister Creek, but all-in-all it would probably be easier to come in via the Eldorado approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 You'll be on your own, I'm afraid, as far as guidebooks are concerned. The Beckey book is probably your best bet, though. [ 10-15-2002, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: mattp ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 If what you're looking for is hike guidebooks for non-climbers, you should probably have a look at the various "100 hikes" books, by Ira Spring. Specificially, "100 Hikes in Washington's North Cascades National Park Region." These aren't climbing guides, although they often provide useful information for hiking trails that form the approach hikes to lots of climbs. There's another book called something like "Don't Waste your time in the North Cascades" which I'm not familiar with. If you're interested in a bit more ambitious outings, "75 Scrambles in Washington" lists non-technical climbs, from the N. Cascades south. Some of these are multi-day outings, and it's a pretty new book, so I expect the information is more up-to-date than an older guidebook. I'm curious how you hit upon that area. Do you have a particular agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 The various "Dont Waste Your Time In the..." books are themselves a waste of time and paper. Dont waste YOUR time and money buying one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkemp Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 quote: The various "Dont Waste Your Time In the..." books are themselves a waste of time... I dislike the overabundance of guidebooks. I dream of going to places that dont have them; difficult these days - can you believe there is a guidebook for Kamchatka Penninsula? When the climbing guide to Alaska came out I was very disappointed. I dont think "Dont waste your time..." is a waste of time though. Why not use available resources to do some homework? Just makes sense. I disagree with some of the opinions in that book but its obvious from reading it that those people love the Cascades. There's good info in there for a person putting together an outing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Alpine Tom: I'm not meaning to be overly snide here, as I often use those books for reference. However, they aren't much help when planning a true wilderness/off trail trip like what JJ appears to have in mind. If his map-reading skills are high-caliber, he will probably find relatively little information in the hiking guidebooks that he can't gleam from a topo map, but if nothing else they will serve as a useful reference guide to which trails will be crowded. Start with "100 hikes for Children: or whatever it is (most heavily used), then look at "100 hikes" and "Don't Waste Your Time" and see which have enticing pictures in the book and are relatively close to the road (next most crowded), and then see those that are somehow omitted from these books (uncrowded), and then look at a map and examine a trail-less valley like McAllister Creek (unless it is on the way to a climb highlighted in one of Jim Nelson's books, you'll probably be all by yourself even it is nice weatheron July 4th weekend). I doubt the hiking books have anything even close to the McAllister Glacier in them; for that, Beckey would provide some useful approach information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkemp Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Alpine T, I dont think you're being snide at all, and I agree But, JJ, if you consider McA Valley, which I cannot imagine - yikes! but if you do, dont miss Dont Waste Your Time's... description of Thunder Creek. I dont have the book in front of me but I remember they give it a really good Shoulder Season rating. And having hiked that valley I would totally agree. So read the books, *read the maps*, then hike up Thunder Creek, thrash about McA Valley, suffer until satisfied, then report back here on what you find out re McA valley. And be prepared for the wildlife in there - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkemp Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 quote: Alpine T, I dont think you're being snide at all er, I meant MattP of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj221 Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 Alright a little clarification is in order here. We’re a group of East Coaster’s planning a summer trip to the Cascades in order to duck out on the oppressive humidity of the Gunks and sample some of your alpine heaven. There will be three teams of two climbers and two teams of two hikers. One hiking team is a veteran of the Appalachian Trail and the other of a lengthy Continental Divide traverse in Colorado. Each group of hikers has an inexplicable love of hard core bushwhacking and protracted misery so I invited them along. The climbers consist of a veteran of an attempt on the North Face of K2 (to 24,000 ft) and a group who’ve been earning their winter climbing stripes in White Mountains and Adirondacks. We’re all at least 5.8 rock leaders in the Gunks. The plan is flexible but the initial thought was to hike into the Dorado Needle area via Eldorado Creek approach set a camp and start bagging classic climbs in the area. I’m looking for a way to provide entertainment for the hikers while the climbers run off and climb over the course of the week. The hikers are all very handy with a topo and a compass and will probably tell me to shove my hiking recommendations up my ass once they get their hands on a USGS map but…. I want to make certain they can generate some kind of agenda so that they are not stuck with a week of sitting in camp and eating our food while we’re out on the rock. I welcome all questions and suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj221 Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 P.S. I'm new to the board. So far your replys and information have been very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 JJ, A word about map reading versus being there as it pertains to PNW climbing. There is a lot of stuff that'll bog you down (literally and figuratively) that maps don't show. You can't just look at a map of Washington's North Cascades and say "that looks doable, let's go that way". You may luck out, but probably you'll be sorry. I again recommend Fred Beckey's Cascade Alpine Guide, Volume 2: Stevens Pass to Rainy Pass. You will find ample examples of eye-candy climbing possibilities in the general area of Eldorado Peak. The cost of this book is ~$25. Between the 10 of you, this'll cost less each than a Starbucks latte. If you send me an email (klenke@attbi.com) with your mailing address, I can (if I feel so inclined), send you photocopies of the relevent pages in Beckey so you can get an idea of what his books are like. The "100 Hikes in Washington" books are okay but don't really give a lot of pictures. The map sketches aren't always easy to figure out either. You say you may put up a base camp in the Dorado Needle area (this will probably mean camping on snow/firn/glacier). If you are willing to move your camp around within a 10 mile radius of that spot, your climbing opportunities skyrocket. Examples: Forbidden Peak (see www.summitpost.com), Mt. Goode, Mt. Formidable, and more. All these are in the aforementioned Beckey book. Beckey's "Volume 3: Rainy Pass to Fraser River" is also a book I would buy if I were you. Even if you don't go to any peaks listed therein, you can still enjoy the pictures as if it were a coffee-table book. [ 10-16-2002, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: klenke ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 jj221 – sounds like you and your climbing friends will have a blast. the problem for your hiking friends is that the logical climbing basecamp (probably the col above dorado col, by deacon’s tower) is several miles across a large glacier from any non-technical terrain. ok, it is not the most heinous glacier in all the world, and people do often walk around on it unroped, but it is one of the largest icefields in the cascades and it is quite thick in places (i.e. deep holes) and there are certainly crevasses between your base camp and anything that could be considered “hiking,” even the off-trail, burly kind of hiking it sounds like they enjoy. if you are set on sharing a base camp, one possibility might be to camp low on the eldorado side, basically just as you emerge in the first alpine basin above the boulderfields. from here, you could climb eldo, the triad, maybe torment, while your friends could do some cool hikes/scrambles to boston basin and back, and out to hidden lakes peak (this is basically the reverse of the alternate approach listed in the nelson guide). these would both involve a fair amount of challenging navigation. then maybe they could go back down to the road and head up to the cascade pass region for a few days while the climbers go high and to dorado needle, early morning spire, etc. why not teach your hiking buddies about crevasse rescue? then you can share a real climber’s basecamp and they really can spend some time poking around the icecap, which is mostly not very steep and quite large? Lots to explore that way, Klawatti, Primus, Tricouni Peaks, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj221 Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 Thanks for the help guys. My Beckey Guides arrived in the mail today- man what a guide. The completeness is astounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Yeah I read some other guides that are supposed "the definitive guides" then I compare them to the Beckey guides and have to laugh. Usually the information is all there but it's not all in one place Check out the ole Can Rockies books as a comparison. I dont mean the select one either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jj221: Thanks for the help guys. My Beckey Guides arrived in the mail today- man what a guide. The completeness is astounding. here are a couple of fun phrases you can look for when you are reading through the guide "Obvious descent gully" "Imitate a gorilla through the bushes" "One bolt was used for safety. 4th class" "Class 4 with minor aid" "Here is a classic bivouac, complete with running water and trophy-sized rodents" "The name comes from an incident on the first ascent, when a rock was dislodged and crushed a Cadillac parked below, causing consternation among onlookers" "the approach will be a classic Cascades bush thrash if snow is not present" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plexus Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I live for the obvious gulley!!! It !!! jj, if you know glacier travel, crevasse rescue and enjoy flossing your teeth with devil's club, you guys will have a great time. It's not that bad...but as anybody on this board will tell you between point A and point B is not a straight line. While you're up there, tame the . Went out last weekend and my fiancee thought they were so cute, until they started casing our backpacks !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoker Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 No beta here just a PAGE TOP!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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