ice tool sharpness

[Kevin_Matlock]

I've read info indicating this ice tool or that ice tool is "sharp". How much sharpening are you guys doing to your tools before hitting the ice; what does "sharp" mean?

Ice axe, not-so-sharp?

Butter knife sharp?

Dull pocket knife, sorta-sharp?

Cut your finger sharp?

Sharp enough to split an atom?

[sobo]

There's been a lot of discussion on this topic on this board in the past. A search should yield impressive results.

 

But the Q&D answer (for me, at least) is to sharpen it to a butcher knife sharpness with an even bevel of about 30 degrees off the vertical on both sides of the top of the pick, then "knock the edge down" a bit by lightly dragging a flat file across the edge. Do the same for the pointy end. Otherwise, it'll just "fold over" the first time you go out.

[icegirl]

I love the feel of a sharp pick hitting ice in the morning...

[Squid]

...we're talking about climbing, right?

[Kevin_Matlock]

...we're talking about climbing, right?

 

No, I'm fixing a drink right now...

[dbb]

careful! she might be using Layton-speak. seems like kevin is preparing for use of aid.

 

I agree w/ sobo. I try to keep my picks sharp, but more like butter knife sharp. I don't worry too much about having a strait razor sharp edge on the tip of the pick, just that it is symetrical and comes to a point. Remember when you file it to file in one direction, and make that direction away from the tip (i.e. file towards the adze). This will keep you from sharpening a little thin fin on the tip.

[glassgowkiss]

i don't bother anymore. maybe like 1 or 2 times a season. i keep the screws sharp, but in no way it matter as far as tools and crampons are concerned.maybe on some ultra thin ice, but then again, they will be dull in a couple of swings anyway

[Kevin_Matlock]

For those who may not have seen this before and since you mentioned ice screw sharpness... http://www.neice.com/Articles/IceScrewSh...files/frame.htm

[icegirl]

I find sharpening (or at least just lightly sharpening, okay, call it fondling them if you must) my tools and crampons at the beginning of a week of thrashing on them, and then half way through (on the rest day) very relaxing... I have noticed a difference (even with my limited skill set) when climbing cold ice when the tools are sharp vs dull. Of course I could be imagining that, I have not done a placebo double blind study

[glassgowkiss]

i have heard about dremmol tool used for sharpening. the only question is how it effects the heat treatment of the metal. plus you can do some real damage. after all, they use cnc machines to get the teeth manufactured. i use a very small metal file, flat on one side and rouded on the other. i also modify pick, when i put them on. i take down the first tooth, so it hooks better on edges.

i was convienced about the sharpness of the picks in 95. my pick broke on ribbon pitch on polar circus and i climbed 3 pitches with broken pick, at -20C. it took about 1 swing more to get good stick, then the other hand.

[icegirl]

Flat bastards work well for sharpening

 

How far back did your pick break G? (1/4 inch or 1 inch) I guess it would work cause it makes a new lower edge/point on the tool... and being that "that" is what is hooking, not the tippy tip....

[Kevin_Matlock]

i have heard about dremmol tool used for sharpening. the only question is how it effects the heat treatment of the metal.

 

I agree that it would be easy to get carried away and mess up the grind angles, but I think that people are WAY too concerned about the temper.

I used to sharpen percision blades on a buffing/grinding wheel when I worked in this factory. They were made of tempered steel and I was able to keep this almost entirely unaffected.

Unless you heat up the metal to change the color, I doubt that you are going to do any more damage than if you simply used the tool on route. I use a speed controllable, 3" grinding wheel and it works fine. The trick of course is that you don't lay on the wheel and watch all the pretty shades of red that are on display!

All I do is "brief application, check the results, brief application, check the results..."-type of thing. You could also have a small cup of cold water or maybe an air nozzle blowing on it to keep it cool if you are really paranoid.

Like everything in life, it's all about moderation.

[PaulB]

I used to sharpen after every day out, but now I mostly just do touch ups after I've hit some rock. If I was going to climb some cold, brittle ice I'd take the time to make sure they were nicely tuned.

 

This happened on the crux pitch of Night'N'Gale last winter, about a half inch off the tip:

 

 

Luckily, I was seconding, and the ice was soft, but it was a lot of work to get the "stub" planted securely.

[fenderfour]

I did a bit of work in metallurgy. There is a misconception about tempering and hardening of steel. In order to fully harden metal, you would get it cherry red hot and cool it as quickly as possible without cracking it. In order to fully soften metal you would heat it to cherry red and let it cool as slowly as possible.

 

Tempering is the next process which uses much less heat to make the steel softer to get the exact characteristics where you want them in the steel. Tempering is usually done in an oven at temperatures that will only cause color change on near-polished metal. You can see this color change on motorcycle exhaust pipes - the straw color slowly changing to dark blue. This color doesn't go away after cooling, but it can be polished away.

 

Using a grinder of any sort on something as thin as an ice pick is very likely going to affect the temper making it softer and causing you to sharpen it more often.

 

A quick rule of thumb - don't get tempered metal too hot to touch and you will be fine.

 

Does this mean that you are destroying your picks by using a grinder? No. They will just dull faster.

[Kevin_Matlock]

A quick rule of thumb - don't get tempered metal too hot to touch and you will be fine.

Yep. That's why I have my grinder going as slow as it can. Pretty much reminds me of the movies where a blacksmith is sharpening a sword on one of those large foot powered sharpening wheels. Yeah, my wheel is going faster, but it takes a while and some patience to get my tools "sharp".

 

Does this mean that you are destroying your picks by using a grinder? No. They will just dull faster.

 

Yeah, I had half suspected this. Thanks for confirming this (and for the science lesson).

[daler]

I'd have to disagree with Bob. I like to keep my tools very sharp. Might as well stack all the odds in your favor. Also its kind of a ritual to sharpen them every night over beer while you tell wild stories of the sick line you just climbed.

Also I do use a Bench grinder at home(Much easier then a dremel tool). Its alot easier to control the angle and heating of the pick this way. You can take off alot or very little. I use a can full of ice water and just alternate the picks often. They never even get hot to the touch. I have done this a bunch with my drytooling specific picks and then torqued on them bigtime and have never broken one.

All of new books on Ice/mixed climbing have tons of info on angle and such.

 

cheers,

 

Dale

[tomtom]

I snapped the last half inch off of a Grivel Evolution pick last season on Lake Louise Falls. It was a cold day (10F) and the ice was wet. The pick was sticking pretty well for the first few swings, then I noticed that something was wrong and the tip of the pick was gone. I downclimbed, reshaped the pick with a small bastard file I carry in my pack, and restarted the climb.

 

Always used a hand file on my tools.