LYleK Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I talked with Don today who remembered reading a thread on here about making the Viper Androids leashes work on Quarks, anyone remember it? I've done a few searches but haven't found it yet. I'd prefer the shorter Android leash, and it seems a bit more solid than Petzl "clipper" system. I picked up a set of 2003 Quarks from Coast Mtn. PG (their last set) for $185CDN an axe, v. sweet. Any help you can provide is appreciated. Lyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Lyle, what you're not climbing leashless???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYleK Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Hey Alex, I figure I'll make the switch once I stop scaring the shit out of myself WITH leashes, so it could be a while. Actually I like the Ergo handles and design, and will go that way once the market settles; I think there's going to be some big innovation in the next few years. Personally, I'd like to see an ergo-handle that actually functions with a leash, but I don't think it's there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Serl Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Hey Alex, I figure I'll make the switch once I stop scaring the shit out of myself WITH leashes, so it could be a while. here we go again, but me too. why rely solely on grip strength (limited, in my case)? feels like turning 5.9 into hard 5.10 every time it try them... and besides, the leashless tools swing like crap compared to "real" tools. fact is, they're designed to optimize the hanging grip angle, not the swinging motion. that might be beneficial on a picked-out competition surface, and it's no problem when you're carefully placing tips into holds on dry-tool surfaces (in which situation it's a great advantage to NOT be attached to your tools - way more freedom of movement is possible), but it sucks on waterfall ice. horses for courses... cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 just flippin' ya shit. "leashless" doesnt necessarily mean "ergo"! why not use the older style android leashes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYleK Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Thanks for the pic, Alex, that doesn't look too bad. I preferred the idea of the connection being bolted through the axe, but the bolt hole and thread hole are just about at the same level on the shaft, anyway. I'm guessing the Viper bolt-on version of the Android could be used but will likely take some modification (drilling) on the tool and a longer screw; 1/ drill out the existing hole to fit main screw, and 2/ drill second hole to accomodate plate stabilizing plug. I'll stick with the standard Android leash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 LYleK: why not just use the charlet moser clipper leash..? it is designed specifically for the quark. Have you tried them out? Just curious… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYleK Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Just going from reviews and feedback, but I'm sure the "clipper" is fine, too. In the end I've ordered both from MEC and will post which one goes on the axes after I've had a chance to check them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Just my 2 cents: the clipper is better based solely on the consensus that it is much harder to deform/damage the clip which is generally the cause of accidental detachments. I think AlpineDave just switched from BD to clipper… he might be able to give you some info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 and besides, the leashless tools swing like crap compared to "real" tools. fact is, they're designed to optimize the hanging grip angle, not the swinging motion. that might be beneficial on a picked-out competition surface, and it's no problem when you're carefully placing tips into holds on dry-tool surfaces (in which situation it's a great advantage to NOT be attached to your tools - way more freedom of movement is possible), but it sucks on waterfall ice. horses for courses... cheers, don, i think ergos don't swing like shit. i did switch last year. they swing different, that's all. while "old style" tools like quark or cobra swing around your pinky, ergos you have to swing around your index finger, that's all. i found you have to be more careful with getting the tool handles dry and keeping your fingers warm. but after all i like my leashless much more now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishstick Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Lyle, I’m taking a bit of a guess here as I don’t have a Viper droid or a Quark near my desk. The Android bit that bolts to the shaft may be too flat to fit a Quark, as the rear of a Viper shaft is quite wide. I’ll try to find one tonight and check. A second potential problem (once again, no Quark) is the high attachment point. There may be an annoying amount of slack between your wrist and the clip, which might make it hard to grab. I’m unconvinced that the bolt on variation is stronger. It’s like comparing a ski boot buckle and a shoelace. At a glance the buckle is stronger, but in reality they’re much easier to gork than a simple lace. There’s just nothing that can go wrong (except the actual attachment points common to both and the fact that sooner or later the leash will auto-detach) with the webbing and buckle. Contradicting the above though, is the fact that the bolt on variation is lighter, which should preserve the swing characteristics of the stick better. Cheers, GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Serl Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 don, i think ergos don't swing like shit. i did switch last year. they swing different, that's all. while "old style" tools like quark or cobra swing around your pinky, ergos you have to swing around your index finger, that's all. point taken. perhaps i'm not trying hard enuf to learn. however, don't u find that because your wrist is still in the "neutral" position when you get the tool to the position at which the pick impacts the ice, that you miss the "snap" of the wrist, and you end up kinda "pecking" at the ice? that was my experience... cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Just my 2 cents: the clipper is better based solely on the consensus that it is much harder to deform/damage the clip which is generally the cause of accidental detachments. I think AlpineDave just switched from BD to clipper… he might be able to give you some info. whose consensus is this? I have been playing with my new clipper leash quarks and I find that with gloves on the clippers are awkward to detach and impossible to reattach with out employing other body parts than the hand in question(eg teeth or stabilizing against my body to be able to re-grab the clip). The webbing is too stiff and too long from the wristloop to the clip. Also you have to actually push the orange button to get the clip back on the post, with the androids you can just push the clip on the post and it selfengages. I have other design complaints too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I love those ridiculous situations where you are hanging out on something steep and your fingers are worked, and you're trying to flip that little clipper back into your thumb and index finger to re-clip it because the webbing is too long, or too short because you're using thicker gloves, etc. Ah ice climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I always just invert on my heel spurs to place gear... you have both hands to place gear and attach/unattach from your tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 LYlek, I have the 2004 Quark and attached the Viper Android to it, no width or other problems. Gotta get a longer screw, drill a hole and enlarge the existing one. Note that 2003 model has the holes much higher and you'd need to drill your own - 3 extra holes per tool. Don_Serl, I tried Ergos just a month ago and am totally sold on those, just too expensive for me. Although I tried at Big Four on somewhat softer ice and with screwed-up picks (demo pair), the swing still was very indicative of the general issues - which is no issues. I stuck it into vertical, overhanging and dinner-plating ice without any discomfort. The only time it was harder to use is on flat surface topping out - trying to get a stick to a horizontal surface from below. The upper handrest hits the surface and you are unsure of the stick. Minor issue, just change tactics. It is an awesome tool, just swing it onto ice, don't play in the store, huge difference. You'll see! Hey, people, is there anybody by chance who'd want to exchange Ergos for my Cobras with 3 extra new picks and Android leashes? I'd even throw in a brand new Grivel Americano! Oh, well... Happy Thanksgiving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Serl Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 It is an awesome tool, just swing it onto ice, don't play in the store, huge difference. You'll see! well, there's another positive vote... my comments are made after using Ergos 3 separate occasions on waterfall ice up Lillooet way last winter, plus a day of playing at Baker. i fully agree - you can't judge much from in-store swinging. cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYleK Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 Follow-up: I tried the Petzl's Clipper leashes and BD Androids before going with the BD Viper Androids for my '03 Quarks. While I'm sure the Petzl system functions adequately, I wasn't crazy about the clunky clip system. It just didn't feel like it had the same snap-in security of the Androids. Plus it seemed like a long way up to clip in (as per Fern's comments). I went with the BD Android Viper (bolt-on) option so I didn't have to thread leash and pipe-clamp, it just seems cleaner. The retro-fit was very straight-forward; I used the existing holes on the 2003 Quarks; The location seems natural as the "clip" hangs about 5cm lower beneath the bolted fixture, plus I wanted to limit the # of holes drilled. I drilled out the existing hole (2 drillbit sizes larger), and adding a second smaller hole above the first to fit the plug (keeps the fixture from turning on the axe). I picked up a couple of longer bolts from the hardware store to finish the job, and now they're itching to scratch! Thanks to all above for your feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYleK Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 (edited) Here's a pic Edited November 30, 2004 by LYleK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The only way to go! modified BD viper is the best of both worlds. Great on ice Great on mixed although I still prefer the Fusion on pure mixed terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jja Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 That looks nice daler .. what did you use for the trigger finger? did you just tape it on or is it secured some other way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The only way to go! modified BD viper is the best of both worlds. Great on ice Great on mixed although I still prefer the Fusion on pure mixed terrain. Looking at your pic it looks like your leash is too short to mantle on the tool... truth? Do all vipers sport a short leash like that? My 2 cents: I would be greatly annoyed if my leash length prevented me from mantling on the top of the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 FYI: From Grivel: Trigger - Art. PJ34.73 Grivel’s invention mounted on the Top Machine in 2000 is now available for tubes of all diameters: in yellow for all tubes up to 20 x 30mm in diameter and in black for larger sizes. It can be regulated at any point and distributes the weight over the fingers. I don't have the thingy yet though. Mantling: that's why I hated Androids back in 2001, but it only takes practice to unclip in no time - way easier than with higher positioned Clipper. The point is to not be clipped most of the time though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 looks like daler took a plastic BD ice-clipper fake biner and hacked and taped it caveman style though. Probably cheaper than a Grivel widget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Yeah… but it sounded like people in this thread disliked too long of a leash (clipper) as it was too hard to flip into one's hand and then reattach... it kinda sounds like it comes down to mantle ability (clipper) vs easier reattach (BD). Or is the viper redesigned so that one can mantel without detaching? And if you use those triggers make sure your tool has an attached/integrated pinky rest... using just a trigger without a pinky rest is a great way to blow out tendons in your hand and/or finger. Based on how the trigger attaches you cannot attach one at the base of the tool to act as a pinky rest… your tool needs to come stock with one or the manufacture needs to offer one (i.e. fang). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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