Fee Demo Extended

[marylou]

I guess I see user fees for hikers and climbers no different than fees for other types of users.

 

As far as inclusion, the National Parks' mission is access for all, and given that, if we were to eliminate fees in one area or another, that is the place where I'd like to see the fees eliminated, or at least made optional. I know that runs contrary to the level of amenity provided there, but is consistent with the mission of the NPS.

 

I find it interesting that the primary issue here seems to be that there is a perception that the FS doesn't manage their money very well, and we should therefore not give them money. However you may feel about the FS's history of managing their funds, there is no denying that the FS needs money to maintain the FS lands. Seems to me the energy would be best spent forcing the Congress to better fund the FS, and to pressure the FS to manage their funds in a manner consistent with what you want. Refusing to pay the fees really doesn't solve anything.

[cj001f]

I guess I see user fees for hikers and climbers no different than fees for other types of users.

 

As far as inclusion, the National Parks' mission is access for all, and given that, if we were to eliminate fees in one area or another, that is the place where I'd like to see the fees eliminated, or at least made optional. I know that runs contrary to the level of amenity provided there, but is consistent with the mission of the NPS.

 

I find it interesting that the primary issue here seems to be that there is a perception that the FS doesn't manage their money very well, and we should therefore not give them money. However you may feel about the FS's history of managing their funds, there is no denying that the FS needs money to maintain the FS lands. Seems to me the energy would be best spent forcing the Congress to better fund the FS, and to pressure the FS to manage their funds in a manner consistent with what you want. Refusing to pay the fees really doesn't solve anything.

marylou-

The NPS mission is, to quote them: "The National park Service preserves unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the national park system for the enjoyment, education,

and inspiration of this and future generations. The Park Service cooperates with partners to extend the benefits of natural and cultural resource conservation and outdoor recreation throughout this country."

Access for all is not a part of their charter.

[billcoe]

This kind of legislative bullshit makes me so fucking PISSED.

It seems lately that our "Guvamint" is more concerned for the welfare of themselves than the very populace which grants the body their powers. This country is slowly(quicker, lately) going to shit. Our freedoms and liberties are being taken away from us bit by bit. The sad thing is that the average Joe/Jane is so pre-occupied by so much noisy, shiny crap that they don't give a fuck about anything but their own shit. This is exactly the kind of sneaky shit that won't even register a response with people until they try to go to "the woods" Even then most folk will just scratch their heads and obey. It's long past due for some honest, open, multifaceted discussion about our natural areas between all user groups. Pretty soon the only people left will be in developed campgrounds with a Burger King kiosk and full hookups. They'll pay the fee and be happy about it. There's no "Us/them" yet, but I worry that there are a lot of motivated parties that are trying hard to encourage that mentality and that would profit from that kind of split. Get the mountain bikers to bitch about the equestrians, get them to bitch about snowmobiles, get hikers to bitch at hunters, Get loggers to bitch at environmentalists, get everybody against each other and then Congress can do whatever the fuck they want to with OUR land. Folks will be so busy pointing fingers at each other they won't notice that we're getting collectively fleeced.

 

That was a beautiful rant, Bunglehead. If we meet, the first round is on me.

 

 

 

Then round 2 would be on me. Total agreement. Worst part, the 2 choices for president are equally piss poor canidates. I expect this to be the first presidential election I haven't voted since I could first vote.

 

I'm boycotting. And don't give me the patriotic crap, I served.... so leave me the F alone.

[marylou]

marylou-

The NPS mission is, to quote them: "The National park Service preserves unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the national park system for the enjoyment, education,

and inspiration of this and future generations. The Park Service cooperates with partners to extend the benefits of natural and cultural resource conservation and outdoor recreation throughout this country."

Access for all is not a part of their charter.

 

Yep, you're right. It doesn't say "for all" in the mission statement.

 

What's your point?

[Skeezix]

One positive thing about this legislation. There will be less people out on the trails....which means more of a wilderness experience.

You mean FEWER people out on the trails... You're confusing count and amount.

[billcoe]

there is no denying that the FS needs money to maintain the FS lands. Seems to me the energy would be best spent forcing the Congress to better fund the FS, and to pressure the FS to manage their funds in a manner consistent with what you want. Refusing to pay the fees really doesn't solve anything.

 

 

Seems to me the time would be better served forcing the FS workers who have nothing productive to do to go get real, productive jobs.

 

Don't need em, Don't want them.

[mtnnut]

Refusing to pay the fees really doesn't solve anything.

 

Volunteering to pay fees into a system that is wasteful and ineffectual at fixing the problems it is supposed to address doesn't solve anything either.

 

Unless the goal is to lighten the wallets of anybody within reach.

[Squid]

[Doug]

I'm with the camp that says the real issue is with Government reform. A while back, I posted a scathing GAO report that tokk the FEE demo program to task. Something like 60+% of funds collected went to administering the program.

 

If the money went to improve my backcounrty experienece, then I may be willing to pay. Shit, the system is so piss poor now, you can get all the tickets you want and nothing will ever happen to you. So, it appears that the cost f administering the program doesn't include enforement of violations.

 

Whatever. Pay or don't pay, the choice is yours. I do a volunteer trail thing once a year, and I haven't consistently paid any fee. That keeps my conscience in check.

[bunglehead]

 

Then round 2 would be on me. Total agreement. Worst part, the 2 choices for president are equally piss poor canidates. I expect this to be the first presidential election I haven't voted since I could first vote.

 

I'm boycotting. And don't give me the patriotic crap, I served.... so leave me the F alone.

 

I feel your pain. Bush has done enough damage, and I don't believe a fucking word or care about a thing Kerry says.

They both went to Yale, they're both fucking rich, and they both probably (one definitely) don't give a fuck about anybody else. And to make it worse, they're acutally related. 9th cousins twice removed. Bush lines the pockets of his republican buddie, Kerry lines the pockets of his democratic buddies. Makes no difference to me because my pockets are the ones the money is coming out of. It seems like my taxes go up every year regardless of who is in the White House. Sure, that 300 dollars I got from Uncle Sam 3 years ago was nice, but I still feel like somehow I'm getting hosed.