AllYouCanEat Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 I don't know why I'm posting this. I guess I'm just curious as to what all of you may think. Maybe I'm just way off base and access is not disappearing. What I would find interesting though is if some of the elder (umm more experienced) individuals here would like to make a comparison of today’s access as compared to 30 years ago and what you think the next 30 years have in store. Here are some examples I’ve seen lately of some current issues. Feel free to add any that you think would add to the discussion (please NOT about the fee demo). Thanks. If I’m just whining, I’m sure someone will let me know. -There's the crystal mountain issue that Lowell Skoog posted on several sites http://www.turns-all-year.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=ha1;action=display;num=1092696727 . - Then there is the Yosemite camp IV restrictions that DRU pointed out in another discussion http://cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB17&Number=389562#Post389603 . - On many rivers there are not only the threat of limitations on how many people can go down a river and what time of year, but new threats from micro damns http://americanwhitewater.org/archive/article/954/ . Finally, I know some of these are unavoidable and are a necessary evil (like maybe the canadian border issue and black helicopters). While others are a very real threat like micro damns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 There are too many rats in the cage. It has gotten worse in my 46 years and will continue to get worse as private lands become more inhabited and restrict access to public corridors and more people use the public lands. Eventually you will have to pay to enter lotteries to gain access to places like the Middlefork of the Snoqualmie. And then you will be in designated camp sites and sleeping in huts with strangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I hope I'm not around when that time comes....... not sure if I could stop myself from forming a vigilante/rebel type attitude and start pickin' off government personnel one by one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 FYI- The Yosemite Camp IV restriction isn't new....it is just being enfored more strictly this year because they got a new computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Lammy's right, extended stays were prohibited in Camp IV when I first went there in 1979, though enforcement was not all that efficient and I think it may have been a 14-day limit. I think the nub of the issue is largely as Bug stated it: there is increasing recreational pressure being placed on shrinking available lands, both public and private. At the same time, there are shrinking public funds to operate public lands for recreational purposes, and this is part of the reason why I think overall recreation planning is often poorly coordinated with other resource management and preservation priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Maybe if they closed the valley off to car traffic at the tunnel and made you walk in there would be less tourists and hence more space for climbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Also if you implement user pay and fee demo type stuff then the impetus is on managers to maximize user numbers in order to maximize revenue, which is a recipie for overcrowding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Maybe if they closed the valley off to car traffic at the tunnel and made you walk in there would be less tourists and hence more space for climbers. From what I gather, they are working on that plan...the problem is where to park the cars and how to effeciently shuttle guests in and out of the Valley, and how to deal with all the RV people. I'm sure it is sort of a conundrum...because restricting access will indefinately decrease income from user fees, yet they will need to maintain a strong visitor base to pay for the system... I won't be suprised to see it down the road, much like the system at Zion. As long as they let my smelly ass and miss piggy on the bus it's all fine by me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Pave tuolome meadows and park them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 A lack of road and trail maintenance is rapidly curtailing access to a LOT of peaks, particularly in BC. In the states we are lucky to have a Park Forest and a Forest Service that seems to have a mandate of maintaining logging roads throughout the Cascades, contrast this with Canada were road access is hit or miss as washouts and decommissioning seem to be rapidly reducing access to some really great climbing! Of course, it's happening in Washington as well just not on such a large scale. Here are some peaks I've climbed in the last 5-10 years where access has become significantly more difficult. Jesus! it's almost every peak I've climbed in SW BC. Habrich - logging road now blocked several hrs hiking below TH to "Life on Earth". Slesse - Road blocked by landslide 1.5 miles before old TH, bridge washed out and trail rapidly deteriorating. Rexford - Access to either side is at least several hrs more hiking than it was 5 years ago due to bridge removal on east side and landslide on west side. Old Settler - I drove to within 45 minute hike of Daphenie Lake (sp?) maybe 4 years ago. Now it's a 4 hr ? hike up the road. Chamois/Les Cornes/etc. - Logging company pulled out, now you need to get a key (Hey Dru! ). Spur roads below peaks are RAPIDLY overgrowing with slide alder. Roads I drove up 5 yrs ago are now bushwacks on foot. In the states, 10 years ago you could drive almost to the base of the West Ridge of the North Twin Sister. Now road blockages and gating have added 5 miles of slogging to get to the same point. Squire Creek Road is perminently blocked a mile or two from the trailhead and access up Clear Creek Road seems endangered as well. Following last falls flooding how many other roads in the Darrington area are now blocked far from once accessable trailheads? A lot I bet. I'm rambling, the point being is that access, particularly in BC, seems to be deteriorating in a hurry for a lot of worthy areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 But as access to some areas decreases access to other areas increases in BC... now the summit of Urquhart is 2 hrs from the car, there's a great new road to the east side of Gemse, they just finish a rebuild on the Settler road last weekend etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 There was some celebration of last Fall's washouts in a conservation group newsletter that came out last winter. It specifically mentioned the Mountain Loop Highway, Suiattle River Road, the Whitechuck Road, and Bacon Creek, and the authors wrote that "thanks to the flood, there may now be a transient opportunity to effectively pressure the Forest Service to decommission many of these mostly useless roads." NCCC Newsletter -- see article on Page 6 The motivations here are apparently similar to those for abandoning the road up the Dosewallips River. I understand the conservation objectives related to preserving wilderness areas and reducing impacts on salmon streams, and I understand the police problems associated with a road like the Middle Fork, but I think some of these groups go a little too far. We have vast tracts of wilderness in places like the Olympic National Park and the Glacier Peak region. I believe the public should have access and that there is great value in maintaining major access roads like the Dosewallips, Mountain Loop Highway, Whitechuck, and the Suiattle. So, too, I would hope that they will continue to maintain many of the "smaller" roads to trailheads and popular climbing destinations like the Clear Creek area outside of Darrington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I have started using a mountain bike more than I used to for these logging roads. I believe someday I will be using a motorbike.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I don't know why I don't just buy a couple motor bikes. It would solve a lot of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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