Fear issues

[allthumbs]

I Fear

 

MikeAdam

Cpt.Caveman

Retrosaures

Charlie

 

...not necessarily in that order-

[sk]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

quote:

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Originally posted by sk:

not quite

I did however do my first lead with my best friend

christ how old do you think I am????/ My grandmother threw her panties at tom jones

sheesh Maybe I would throw my thong at the lead singer of Nicleback though

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Nickleback = "bread rock".

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what was that???? i think we may be experiencing a Language barrier Please explain

[sayjay]

i fear dru showing up at a seattle pub club and making me laugh so hard that i spew beer out my nose.

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by sk:

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

quote:

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Originally posted by sk:

not quite

I did however do my first lead with my best friend

christ how old do you think I am????/ My grandmother threw her panties at tom jones

sheesh Maybe I would throw my thong at the lead singer of Nicleback though

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Nickleback = "bread rock".

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what was that???? i think we may be experiencing a Language barrier

Please explain

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A few months back Matthew Good got in a verbal brawl with NB when he described Creed, Nickleback, etc. as "bread rock" - just doing their hard workin' rock thing and the music is like a loaf of 60% whole wheat, every slice is indistinguishable and tastes the same. I think its funny cause I woulda put Matt Good Band in the same category.

[allthumbs]

Don't be lame. Dru is not a real person.

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by sayjay:

i fear dru showing up at a seattle pub club and making me laugh so hard that i spew beer out my nose.

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you are gonna have to wait till fall ropeup or whatever.

[allthumbs]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

quote:

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Originally posted by sayjay:

i fear dru showing up at a seattle pub club and making me laugh so hard that i spew beer out my nose.

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you are gonna have to wait till fall ropeup or whatever.

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pick me up on the way down...i'll attend with ya.

[sk]

bread rock or not, He wears leather pants and I like him I would still throw my thong I think although they (NB) are not a verry Hard or heavey band, they harken back to like the rock of the 70's like Bad Company or something. Sure pop-ish in nature.... but that is why it is there, so you can sing all the words and our kids will be pickin' the licks at there parties in 20 years

[allthumbs]

quote:

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Originally posted by sk:

I would still throw my thong

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be sure to wax

[Cairns]

Has anyone put in a word for denial, poor comprehension, and luck? The word is, "Accidents happen to other people." Works for me, so far.

 

Sometimes there is fear, but placing yourself in the scary situation can lead to desensitization. Just watch out for danger, this is bad. Fear is ok.

 

One other trick is to try a mantra. Mine is, "Don't try Pipeline."

 

Andy Cairns

[Guest]

Even an MF'in 206er knows that Nickelback sucks. Indistinguishable from Creed and other bands by other lameass names. Don't ever compare these bands to Bad Co. though

They are more like ripoffs of the grunge scene, with less drugs and more Jesus.

 

Fall Rope Up Suggestion: Avatar grudge matches. Matches will be arranged online based on spray and dislike for eachother. The men behind the smoke and curtains will then face off in real life. I will provide gloves.

No one will have to fight anyone on Trask's fear list though.

 

"Six Gun sound, BWWAAAHHHHN, is our claim to fame..."

[D-dog]

I'm late to this conversation, but I thought I'd throw a few cents in nonetheless. For 15 years, my focus athletically was climbing. I went through the phase of invincibility others have described, and fell in love with free soloing for several years. Did some scary trad leads that were not much below my technical ability on toprope, and came very, very close to serious injuries more than a few times.

 

Broke some bones, nothing major. However, can't really say I ever got truly, truly scared in climbing. Temporary panic, sure. Deep-seated, long-term fear? Not really; I was always able to shake off an epic pretty easily.

 

When I started BASE jumping a few years ago, I came to know fear much better. In the last few months, I've watched one jumper die in front of me and lost a good friend in another incident. Since I started jumping, I've discovered forms and elements of fear I never found in my climbing experience.

 

For me, now, fear is the following: what are the consequences of a worst-case scenario, and am I willing to pay that price? In BASE, serious problems of any flavor generally mean death or very, very bad injuries. Walking away from a BASE mishap with a few broken anlkes is lucky. A broken back is medium-scale. Permanent disability or brain damage is bad. Death is really bad.

 

"Justified fear is a shrewd advisor" - John Long, aka Largo

 

Fear is good when it warns us of the potential consequences of failure. And, if we do something enough, failure WILL happen. Are we ready to deal with the consequences of failure in a given situation? If we aren't physically, mentally, and emotionally prepared to deal with those consequences, then I think our fear steps in to shut us down and prevent us from playing the game any more. That is a blessing, really.

 

When we get hurt, badly or even not that badly, I think we get a deeper understanding of those consequences. Thinking about broken bones is one thing, dealing with them (and the lifetime decrease in functionality that often comes with them post-recovery) is something entirely different. Thinking about death is one thing; seeing it firsthand, living it, is different.

 

I still jump, and I still run out stuff where falling would be really, really bad. But I do so only when my heart is in it. Sometimes, my heart just isn't in a given jump, or a given route. Then, I don't do it. I've made peace with my fears; a decade ago, I didn't really "have" fears, per se. I just didn't give a shit about the consequences of my actions as a climber. If I died, so what? Life went on.

 

Now, I'm older and I know what happens when somebody dies. They don't suffer, really, but their lived ones, friends, and dependents do. When you "go in" in BASE (i.e. die), ripples of shock go out through the world like coencentric circles. Those waves resonate for a long, long time.

 

As Duncan Ferguson has said (I paraphrase), one must embrace fear, not hide from it. When we are at peace with our fear, and at peace with the risks we take, we can take those risks with open eyes and an open heart. When we lack that peace, our fear holds us back - as it should.

 

Some fears are unjustified (for the most part): falling a few feet onto good bolts on a steep sport route. Risk is quite low, like riding a roller-coaster. It is "scary" because the body feeling is novel and exciting, not because of true danger. Some fears, in contrast, are real: scrambling on exposed, loose rock in alpine gulleys IS risky, and a small mistake (or just bad luck) can result in very bad injury or death.

 

Learn to discern between justified fear, of the kind Largo mentions, and unjustified fear. Enjoy the latter, it is a cheap thrill and fun to overcome and battle in safe situations. Heed the former, it tells us when we are near the line - or over it.

 

The only person truly without fear is the man who honestly has nothing to lose. Those of us who have come to cherish things in this world, I believe, come to know fear that is not meant to be ignored. When this happens, I think it best to make peace with this fear and heed its message.

 

Some risks are real. Some prices for failure are very, very high.

 

http://juliabell.home.att.net/

 

Peace,

 

D-d0g

[allthumbs]

That was a really nice read, D-Dog. Thanks, trask

[Attitude]

quote:

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Originally posted by D-dog:

Some risks are real. Some prices for failure are very, very high.

 

http://juliabell.home.att.net/

 

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From that website (listing deaths of BASE jumpers):

 

Alf Humphries

Suicide

"Alf shot himself months after a BASE jump that left him severely disabled."

 

Bradley Smith, BASE 8, 1997

Suicide

"Brad had an accident from a Arizona bridge (Burro Creek) when he impacted at line stretch and from this received some amount of brain injuries. Brad later committed suicide for unknown reasons."

 

Something to think about.

[AA]

WOW D-dog, what a great post. Thanks for putting it into perspective..

[JayB]

I second, or third, or whatever the motion. One of the best entries on the subject I've ever seen.

[shaky]

d-dog,

 

Thanks for the well-reasoned post re: fear and the consciousness of consequences as one invariably gets more experienced. You're right - as we mature, or at least spend more time in a sport, we will eventually see consequneces go from theory to fact. I never cared to fall, then, I'm falling without a stop. To add to the story - my belayer was knocked unconscious by a rock I dislodged. He got the fun ride in the army helicopter, a week in a coma, and several months of rehab. Maybe in there is some 'survivor's guilt' for me, too.

 

Branching out- I added the motorcycle to my repetoir of mitigated risk last year. Similar- the odds of me becoming fender food for a Volvo is somewhat greater than the danger of climbing - mostly because I'm working in a much more dangerous envronment - Seattle streets.

And, a coworker, who began riding at the time I did, was killed by a truck as a 4-way stop. He, too, chose risk within his life- skiing, fast alpine ascents, hard-core single-track.

 

So we have to accept that risk, and the fear that accompanies it. I do not deny that fear - My struggle is that it envelopes me, rather than me being able to envelope it.

Thanks.

[D-dog]

quote:

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Originally posted by shaky:

d-dog,

So we have to accept that risk, and the fear that accompanies it. I do not deny that fear - My struggle is that it envelopes me, rather than me being able to envelope it.

Thanks.

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I wish you the best as you come to terms with this new type of interaction with fear. Last year, I had a bad experience on a BASE jump that involved soloing several loose, dangerous pitches of slabby granite in the 5.10+ range to retreat from a jump gone bad. It was a thoroughly unpleasant, frightening, and destabilizing experience. I was fortunate to survive, but it left mental scars.

 

Now, nearly a year later, I am still working to get back to 100% mental clarity while climbing harder rock on lead. I've also found myself truly spooked climbing around on structures before jumping (the undersides of bridges, antennas, etc.), whereas before I was totally blase about such exposure.

 

What I've found is that, over time, the damage seems to be fading. Not as fast as I'd like, but fading nonetheless. Perhaps I'll never be as truly exposure-proof as I was before the incident, but I prefer to think that in time I'll not only become as solid in precarious places as I was pre-incident, but perhaps more so. As a side note, when I returned from that particular escapade, folks in my "normal" (i.e. non-BASE, non-climbing) world immediately noticed something different about me. Hard to put to words, but I had crossed a threshold from which one never really comes back on that trip. Looking back, I think it made me a more mature and reasoned athlete - but it also changed more subtle things about me, in deep ways. Folks said it showed in my eyes when I returned, like I'd seen something very powerful and could not forget the memory.

 

The more we come to know ourselves - the good AND the bad - the more powerful we become as humans and as athletes. However, sometimes the path to self-knowledge and a concomitant increase in personal strength dips down before progressing back up again. That's what I believe anyway; perhaps that belief is happily self-fulfilling.

 

Peace,

 

D-d0g

[allison]

Originally posted by D-dog:

 

"Some fears are unjustified (for the most part): falling a few feet onto good bolts on a steep sport route. Risk is quite low, like riding a roller-coaster. It is "scary" because the body feeling is novel and exciting, not because of true danger. Some fears, in contrast, are real: scrambling on exposed, loose rock in alpine gulleys IS risky, and a small mistake (or just bad luck) can result in very bad injury or death."

 

This is so true, and yet in my case, I can't get myself to do one (lead even easy stuff on bolts) but I have no problem with the other (nasty loose gully, here I come!). What's UP with that? For me, at least, it's become an exercise in frustration. One person told me that as long as I feel pain every time I take a step (I do, from a climbing accident six summers ago) that I'm going to be reminded that rock is dangerous and could mangle me again. This is a simple answer, and I'm not convinced that the solution is as simple as that. If it were I'd still be dragging my knees through the corners on the motorcycle, and post accident I've lacked cajones on that front too. Bye bye sport bike, hello wheelchair!

 

Sorry, I'm ranting, folks. Some days this is sooo frustrating!

 

Maybe a little something from The Clash will soothe my soul...

[allthumbs]

A guide is leading a client up a challenging first ascent. Every time the guide gets to a particularly dangerous section, he stops and puts on the same red shirt. The guide climbs pitch after difficult pitch, beautifully. As they near the top, the client finally asks about the red shirt. "If I had fallen," says the wise and courageous guide, " this shirt would disguise the blood, and you would not be frightened and loose heart." "Amazing," thought the client, marveling at this forethought.

 

The next day, as they neared the summit, a section more difficult than any before loomed above them. The guide started up, then downclimbed and started rummaging in his pack. "What are you looking for?," asked the client.

 

"My brown pants."

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

That reminds the Doctor ...

Here, this was going to be an image but it wouldn't display, so you gotta click it.

 

[ 08-22-2002, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

[Dru]

Yes, there are two adjacent routes on Yamnuska (choss pile found in the East) called Red Shirt and Brown Trousers.

[telemarker]

Fear serves an addictive need in climbers as well as other adrenaline activities. Without fear, you would never feel that absolute exhilaration upon reaching the top of the climb. Overcoming fear is one of the most satisfying emotions I have felt, and one of the main reasons I climb.