Greg_W Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Apparently since I have bought gear from Shoreline Mountain Products over the past two years, I am now eligible to join the AAC. My question to you guys is: If you are a member, why do you feel it's worthwhile? If you haven't joined, why not? Greg W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMonk Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted August 13, 2002 Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by RedMonk: $$$ Thanks for the wonderful insight, brainiac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 greg, they offer rescue insurance for starters. i believe it covers things as helocopters. also included are the american alpine journal and accidents in mtneering annuals. both good reads!! your money also goes to help support lobbysists to some extent. the access fund used to be part of the aac, but broke away to become their own organization.(lobbyist example) i did not renew my membership a few years ago, due to the fact that i was unhappy with the casecade section of the club. it seemed really dead, and i still think it is for the most part. i have noticed that recently there is a new breath within in the section, but anymore that is not the reason i stay a member. there are also other bene's but these 3 seem to be the most prevelant for most climbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To_The_Top Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I joined a few years back for a few reasons. The main one is the rescue insurance, when I hear about those pesky climbers costing the taxpayers comments from people I tell them that I have rescue insurance, it shuts them up while I still pay for their stadiums. You also get the publications they put out. Also, there is strength in numbers when it comes to politics, and they do lobby some. There are reasons not to join, like the $75 a year dues, but members get some discounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Erik is absolutely right. The rescue insurance alone is a reason to join. I think it covers each climber for up to $5000 per incident ($10,000 lifetime limit) on peaks under 6,000m. You have to purchase an additional rider for peaks higher than that but it is really cheap and you only have to buy it for the days you will be on the peak. The organization does really important work in DC to make sure legislators are educated before doing things like imposing mandatory rescue fees on climbers. They are also really vocal about the fee demo program. I think anyone who climbs should be a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 michelle, i am going to disagree with you on the fee demo. they maybe vocal, but between them and the access fund i have seen and heard little about any progress. i still larry being the real cool guy he is. i still see that the fee demo day pass has increased and i have read that permenant legistation is on the horizon. i understand that it comes down to money, but if you read names of the aac and other similar organizations i see alot of money. if i personally was not poor and destittue i would buy a.r.c. fire all their workers and then close business in the name of free wilderness. the biggest disheartning thing i have found with the aac like most 'old skool' clubs is the good ole boy system. fair enough, as i gave up long ago thinking that it was something for all climbers. werd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted August 13, 2002 Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by erik: i was unhappy with the casecade section of the club. it seemed really dead, and i still think it is for the most part. I just went to the Cascade Section's website, the last event they had was in 2000! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 well why don't you join and schedule an event then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by iain: well why don't you join and schedule an event then? already tried homey....i am sure if you do a search, you'll find my rant...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Anti-Twight Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Don't forget about the AAC library and the wealth of books,maps,accounts of ascents in the AAJ and the fact that as a member, you can have someone dig up beta, on just about most routes/most countries. Also, how much would you have to pay individually for the two books? And being insured on any peak 6000m and under,anywhere is a great deal. You also get a phonebook, with all of the AAC members #'s, so if you need some beta on freeing the nose in a day, call Lynn Hill. Hell, if you want a date, call Lynn Hill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by The Anti-Twight: Don't forget about the AAC library and the wealth of books,maps,accounts of ascents in the AAJ and the fact that as a member, you can have someone dig up beta, on just about most routes/most countries. Also, how much would you have to pay individually for the two books? And being insured on any peak 6000m and under,anywhere is a great deal. You also get a phonebook, with all of the AAC members #'s, so if you need some beta on freeing the nose in a day, call Lynn Hill. Hell, if you want a date, call Lynn Hill! i hear lynn is tough on her men and burns through an average of 2 per year... im certain her new bio written by greg child has more info on her love life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I am a member of AAC and although it breaks my wallet every year, I continue to support them. Not b/c of theCascades section, but because of other tools such as the library, the books (journal and accidents), and the insurance. They used to have qualifications as to who could join determined by your climbing resume, but that has changed. Also, don't forget about the grants they offer. I road the NAVIMAG ship up through the fjords of Patagonian Chile 3 years ago and saw a group of Coastal mountains (4-6K feet)on these islands off the coast. I was thinking of doing a trip there and sea kayaking out to a group of islands to climb some FAs where the mountains are not even completely mapped, and those that are are named by elevation. Of course, I never did the trip, but still have it in the back of my mind. The climbs would be pretty non-technical but the approach would be the most dangerous. I called AAC and they said that that was exactly the type of trip they look to fund. Anyways, I would like to see the Cascades section more active and may drop my membership if I become complacent with them, but for now I am satisfied and can justify the $75. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 It is for other countries. What do you do when in the Andes on a peak less than 6K m.? It helps with those and all costs prior to hospitalization. It is for rescue efforts in general. In many countries, this may not involve a helicopter but sending a military group up to rescue you and getting you out. I think it also pays to get your body (morbid thought) out of a country and back home. I hope no one ever has to deal with this, but let me tell you from experience (not a climbing accident - a friend passed away in Panama), that when someone dies in a underdeveloped country, it is quite difficult to get the deceased out in any sort of descent time - at least one that would afford a descent burial ceremony. I think they may even help with logistics in this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erden Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Please see this, guys. Hot off the press... If you are an AAC member, consider attending the Leavenworth event, and make your concerns heard. That is the way to change an organization from within. Unless your voices are heard, the organization will take its own direction, not reflecting what you would like it to be. If you are not a member, contact Peter Ackroyd to find out if you can be there to find out more... OK, I am done preaching now. Erden. -------------------------------- Following up on the survey and also responses from people who wanted to meet to help the section, I offered some dates and this was the most popular. I apologize to those who cannot attend on this date but want to help. Please let me know your thoughts and if you would like to be nominated to the team please let me know before the meeting and state your interest and availability. If you know a member who does not have email please pass this on. We are in the process of re-thinking our web site (thanks to Ade Miller) and will be posting these, and other items of interest, soon. Keep an eye on it AAC Cascades Section I hope you can join us in Leavenworth. Peter Ackroyd Cascade Section Chair SECTION MEETING, 5:30PM SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 21ST, 2002, AT THE ENZIAN INN, LEAVENWORTH All section members are invited to attend this meeting. We want to hear your ideas about goals, organization structure and activities for the section. We will be looking for volunteers and nominations to form a small team to run things and will vote to elect those persons. This is your opportunity to participate and affect the future of the AAC in this region. Food and drinks will be provided (sponsors welcome!) and there will be a chance to socialize and maybe even arrange some climbing for Sunday (AAC members do climb!). Provisionally, buffet dinner will be served from 6pm to 7pm and the meeting will follow. There are lots of places to stay in Leavenworth (book early) and campsites should not be too crowded this time of year. The Enzian Inn has 7 Queen size rooms on hold until August 30th. If you want to book one of those call 800.223.8511 and ask for a room under Group #6559. PLEASE let me know if you plan to attend and how many in your party so enough food will be available. Email Peter Ackroyd – pdack1@attbi.com - or call 206.329.3447 before August 30th. RECEPTION AND SLIDESHOW WITH CARLOS BUHLER, FRIDAY DECEMBER 13TH, 2002 The location details will be confirmed soon for this excellent event. There will be a reception for AAC members prior to the show. Carlos is one of our pre-eminent AAC members and will give a great slideshow. You can check out his web site http://www.carlosbuhler.com/ for background. Members will be asked to reserve seats ahead of time so we can offer the remainder to the public to help pay for the evening. We will also be looking for sponsors for this event. PUT IT ON YOUR CALENDAR!! FUTURE EVENTS These will be discussed at the Leavenworth meeting. We hope to have section dinner around the beginning of February, 2003. If you have any ideas for events or for speakers please contact Peter Ackroyd. [ 08-13-2002, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: erden ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Yes, I think it applies more to places like Chamonix, etc where rescue is a professional service, or places like B.C. (correct me if I'm wrong Dru) where you are highly likely to be hit with a helicopter bill for an evac. That said, I carry AAC insurance to demostrate that I am willing to be responsible for my activities in the mountains in the USA, even if the percentage of money going to climbing rescue is so miniscule compared to general SAR. In Oregon, there is a provision in chapter 401 ORS for billing a climber who is considered negligent. How is negligence defined? It is worth reading it to find out, as crap such as MLU, cellphone, etc is mentioned. I'll post it if people would like to see it, otherwise you can find it on the oregon gov't web site. I believe CO has a similar law? While I think there is only a remote chance of AAC insurance being used in the states, I could not afford to deal with the consequences otherwise and I consider it a political move more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Buhler....buhler...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by iain: Yes, I think it applies more to places like Chamonix, etc where rescue is a professional service, or places like B.C. (correct me if I'm wrong Dru) where you are highly likely to be hit with a helicopter bill for an evac. That said, I carry AAC insurance to demostrate that I am willing to be responsible for my activities in the mountains in the USA, even if the percentage of money going to climbing rescue is so miniscule compared to general SAR. In Oregon, there is a provision in chapter 401 ORS for billing a climber who is considered negligent. How is negligence defined? It is worth reading it to find out, as crap such as MLU, cellphone, etc is mentioned. I'll post it if people would like to see it, otherwise you can find it on the oregon gov't web site. I believe CO has a similar law? While I think there is only a remote chance of AAC insurance being used in the states, I could not afford to deal with the consequences otherwise and I consider it a political move more than anything. They dont bill us yet and I dont think they bill you guys (tourists) either... I think one time they did bill some teenage snowboarders who got avalanched 5 minutes after ignoring a patroller and crossing a boundary line into a loaded and unstable gully... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I just remember going on an ACC trip to the Clemenceau area and the organizer wouldn't let us board the chopper w/o handing over a visa number to the pilot! That got the gears turning a bit. Maybe it was not a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 See that wasnt an emergency, that was just for the flight, i would guess... even Whitesaddle has stopped taking cheques from climbers thery dont already know now... bad bouncing experience last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: They dont bill us yet This is not 100% true, it depends whose helicopter picks you up and who called it. If it is an ambulance helicopter you might get a bill, mine was for $53. I thought about joining AAC for the recue insurance coverage prior to my trip to south america but decided that the $75/$5000 calculation was not value since $5000 won't go very far when helicopters are involved anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: See that wasnt an emergency, that was just for the flight, i would guess... even Whitesaddle has stopped taking cheques from climbers thery dont already know now... bad bouncing experience last summer. No, this was just to insure that we had a way to pay for a rescue. The numbers were torn up after we arrived safely back in Golden. We had already paid for the flight w/ Alpine Helicopter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Huh. So what if you're broke, do they just leave you there injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icegirl Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Kind of reminds me of Divers Alert Network and their insurance, they pay A LOT more for diving accidents and such... Check this out... http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/membership/benefits.asp http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/insurance/compare.asp I only bring this up because the coveage difference. $29 buck a year gets you $100,000 evac. assistance when you travel 50 miles from home. And if you buy the standard plan ($25) you get like $45,000 medical coverage (which is good, 'cause normal insurance tends to balks at paying for things like chamber rides due to getting yourself bent . If my memory serves me correctly, it costs something like $30,000 to scramble a coast guard rescue helicopter from the station in Port Angles for a search. Who knows if those numbers are correct, as it was a long time ago. I seem to remember something about them sending bills to the rescued parties, also. I know, off the subject, and only sort of applicable, but an evac is an evac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Dunno. It seemed a little strange to me. My guess is it was more just a statement to reinforce the risks we were taking and that the ACC wouldn't tolerate a bill. It was just a bunch of people from the Calgary section heading up for a week, not guided or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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