Rapping with one rope and a ball of twine

[Stefan]

what are you - a sissy?

 

Uh...sometimes I rap down stuff that I cannot climb back up...stuff like .12 or .14 or even overhangs. So, my original question, how often does a fifi hook or skyhook get dislodged in a rock crevasse requiring you to climb up to dislodge it?

[Dustin_B]

some type of rock crevasse

is the word you are looking for "crack"?

[Stefan]

some type of rock crevasse

is the word you are looking for "crack"?

 

Get all specific on me. Yes. Or the fifi hook, skyhook could lodge on rock while coming down....I just don't see the hooks coming down the rock in a "smooth" motion like rope.

 

Still waiting on an answer.....

[ashw_justin]

Hey well as long as you're crazy enough to rap off of hooks, you can just prussik up the rope if it gets caught.

[Dru]

what are you - a sissy?

 

Uh...sometimes I rap down stuff that I cannot climb back up...stuff like .12 or .14 or even overhangs. So, my original question, how often does a fifi hook or skyhook get dislodged in a rock crevasse requiring you to climb up to dislodge it?

 

Well, I use this technique at least 5 times a week, maybe 6, and it has only happened to me once and that was when my stupid partner pulled the rope the wrong way. So I just said "Ok fool leave it fixed and buy me a new one." Light and fast!

 

It's not the only technique one can use involving a hook and a line

[Szyjakowski]

A crevice is a narrow opening resulting from a split or crack (as in a cliff)

so, dustin_B in your occupation section of your profile it states "I’m not really a devoted Dubya supporter; I just play one on cc.com."

is that true or are you just hiding the truth like shrub does?

[Dru]

what are you - a sissy?

 

Uh...sometimes I rap down stuff that I cannot climb back up...stuff like .12 or .14 or even overhangs. So, my original question, how often does a fifi hook or skyhook get dislodged in a rock crevasse requiring you to climb up to dislodge it?

 

Jeez Mr. Safety, I bet if you were "having sex with Death" you'd use a condom!

[Stefan]

Well, I use this technique at least 5 times a week, maybe 6, and it has only happened to me once and that was when my stupid partner pulled the rope the wrong way.

 

Wow. My original thought was the rope might be lodged 50% of the time in the rocks by the hook. I still don't know if I want try this method though.....and if that makes me a sissy, then I am a sissy

[Stefan]

Jeez Mr. Safety, I bet if you were "having sex with Death" you'd use a condom!

 

Yes I would--I would even ask "Death" for a lab test on STDs before engaging in the activity. I have already had one terrible climbing accident involving a rappel. I do not ever want to have another one.

[Dru]

Yes - I forget that sometimes. You know I'm just trolling you right?! For real now: I have never used that stupid one rope and hook technique. I would rather just carry more anchor material and make intermediate anchors.

[chris]

I just went searching on Petzl's website, since I had heard they have done load tests on static knots. At least as of 2003 they were still showing diagrams with overhand knots. Look here:

http://www.petzl.com/petzl/SportConseils?MotRecherche=Quick+Search&Langue=en&Activite=14&Famille=1&Conseil=38&Produit=&SousFamille=

[chris]

And here's another posting from an English site. I have to admit I haven't done more than glance through it:

http://www.planetmountain.com/English/Lab/techniques/abseiling/ab2.html

[chris]

Craig Lueben writes about overhand knots in his Falcon Press guide "How to Rappel."

[chris]

Will's post earlier on this thread inspired to go digging through a box I hadn't looked into in quite some time. I also just finished reading Tom Moyer's online report - in full, and the accident reports that he sites.

http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/EDK.html

The top of Moyer's webpage is dated 9 November 1999. This is actually incorrect and misleading, since at the bottom of the page (out of sight unless you scroll down), an update was November of 2003 - I actually have a hard copy of this report given to me by the AMGA. I think the most imformative part of the report is Moyer's final opinions after examining the data. Another valuable source is one of the accidents that Moyers cites, http://www.geocities.com/danielzimmerlin/pages/stories/knot.html Especially, Magnuson's final thoughts in the last three paragraphs.

 

Finally, I'd like to point out the contrast of Moyer's #9 #15, and #17 tests. All three tests involved an 11mm and 8mm cords tied together - and were the only tests that involved cords of dis-similar diameter. The test tied with a figure-eight didn't begin to "roll" or "capsize" until 1330 lbs. Tests #15 and #17 involved overhand knots and failed at lower weights - 1230lbs dry, 950lbs wet.

 

With only one exception (the wet rope test #10), every knot that failed under 500 lbs was tied "sloppy" or "loose."

 

This was pretty cool - Will actually got me reconsidering why I do what I do, and inspired me to go looking up data to prove or disprove my statements - and I was curious if I was working with some incorrect assumptions. But my opinion is that Moyer's data actually supports my orginal claims rather than refuting them.

Or I could just be lucky...

[catbirdseat]

And here's another posting from an English site. I have to admit I haven't done more than glance through it:

http://www.planetmountain.com/English/Lab/techniques/abseiling/ab2.html

Planet Mountain makes reference to a "Marchand Knot" but doesn't show it. I tried googling it and did not come up with anything.

[selkirk]

From there site.... on the Abseil and Next Belay page

 

First tie a Marchand (often referred to as Kleimheist)

 

as memory serves it's in FOTH as a Klemheist.

[Rad]

this thread is hilarious. I just hope i never hear about a climber accident involving a botched fifi hook rappel with duct tape. that would give us all, justifiably, a bad name in the press and with the park staff, though it might merit a Darwin award.