Stefan Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 what are you - a sissy? Uh...sometimes I rap down stuff that I cannot climb back up...stuff like .12 or .14 or even overhangs. So, my original question, how often does a fifi hook or skyhook get dislodged in a rock crevasse requiring you to climb up to dislodge it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin_B Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 some type of rock crevasse is the word you are looking for "crack"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 some type of rock crevasse is the word you are looking for "crack"? Get all specific on me. Yes. Or the fifi hook, skyhook could lodge on rock while coming down....I just don't see the hooks coming down the rock in a "smooth" motion like rope. Still waiting on an answer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Hey well as long as you're crazy enough to rap off of hooks, you can just prussik up the rope if it gets caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 what are you - a sissy? Uh...sometimes I rap down stuff that I cannot climb back up...stuff like .12 or .14 or even overhangs. So, my original question, how often does a fifi hook or skyhook get dislodged in a rock crevasse requiring you to climb up to dislodge it? Well, I use this technique at least 5 times a week, maybe 6, and it has only happened to me once and that was when my stupid partner pulled the rope the wrong way. So I just said "Ok fool leave it fixed and buy me a new one." Light and fast! It's not the only technique one can use involving a hook and a line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 A crevice is a narrow opening resulting from a split or crack (as in a cliff) so, dustin_B in your occupation section of your profile it states "I’m not really a devoted Dubya supporter; I just play one on cc.com." is that true or are you just hiding the truth like shrub does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 what are you - a sissy? Uh...sometimes I rap down stuff that I cannot climb back up...stuff like .12 or .14 or even overhangs. So, my original question, how often does a fifi hook or skyhook get dislodged in a rock crevasse requiring you to climb up to dislodge it? Jeez Mr. Safety, I bet if you were "having sex with Death" you'd use a condom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Well, I use this technique at least 5 times a week, maybe 6, and it has only happened to me once and that was when my stupid partner pulled the rope the wrong way. Wow. My original thought was the rope might be lodged 50% of the time in the rocks by the hook. I still don't know if I want try this method though.....and if that makes me a sissy, then I am a sissy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Jeez Mr. Safety, I bet if you were "having sex with Death" you'd use a condom! Yes I would--I would even ask "Death" for a lab test on STDs before engaging in the activity. I have already had one terrible climbing accident involving a rappel. I do not ever want to have another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Yes - I forget that sometimes. You know I'm just trolling you right?! For real now: I have never used that stupid one rope and hook technique. I would rather just carry more anchor material and make intermediate anchors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 I just went searching on Petzl's website, since I had heard they have done load tests on static knots. At least as of 2003 they were still showing diagrams with overhand knots. Look here: http://www.petzl.com/petzl/SportConseils?MotRecherche=Quick+Search&Langue=en&Activite=14&Famille=1&Conseil=38&Produit=&SousFamille= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 And here's another posting from an English site. I have to admit I haven't done more than glance through it: http://www.planetmountain.com/English/Lab/techniques/abseiling/ab2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Craig Lueben writes about overhand knots in his Falcon Press guide "How to Rappel." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Will's post earlier on this thread inspired to go digging through a box I hadn't looked into in quite some time. I also just finished reading Tom Moyer's online report - in full, and the accident reports that he sites. http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/EDK.html The top of Moyer's webpage is dated 9 November 1999. This is actually incorrect and misleading, since at the bottom of the page (out of sight unless you scroll down), an update was November of 2003 - I actually have a hard copy of this report given to me by the AMGA. I think the most imformative part of the report is Moyer's final opinions after examining the data. Another valuable source is one of the accidents that Moyers cites, http://www.geocities.com/danielzimmerlin/pages/stories/knot.html Especially, Magnuson's final thoughts in the last three paragraphs. Finally, I'd like to point out the contrast of Moyer's #9 #15, and #17 tests. All three tests involved an 11mm and 8mm cords tied together - and were the only tests that involved cords of dis-similar diameter. The test tied with a figure-eight didn't begin to "roll" or "capsize" until 1330 lbs. Tests #15 and #17 involved overhand knots and failed at lower weights - 1230lbs dry, 950lbs wet. With only one exception (the wet rope test #10), every knot that failed under 500 lbs was tied "sloppy" or "loose." This was pretty cool - Will actually got me reconsidering why I do what I do, and inspired me to go looking up data to prove or disprove my statements - and I was curious if I was working with some incorrect assumptions. But my opinion is that Moyer's data actually supports my orginal claims rather than refuting them. Or I could just be lucky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 And here's another posting from an English site. I have to admit I haven't done more than glance through it: http://www.planetmountain.com/English/Lab/techniques/abseiling/ab2.html Planet Mountain makes reference to a "Marchand Knot" but doesn't show it. I tried googling it and did not come up with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 From there site.... on the Abseil and Next Belay page First tie a Marchand (often referred to as Kleimheist) as memory serves it's in FOTH as a Klemheist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 this thread is hilarious. I just hope i never hear about a climber accident involving a botched fifi hook rappel with duct tape. that would give us all, justifiably, a bad name in the press and with the park staff, though it might merit a Darwin award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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