Beacon Rock Ethics ?

[billcoe]

This line added: this is turning into an ethics/re-bolting question further down the thread and I am actively soliciting opinions.

 

 

 

My weekend sucked for getting out and climbing (but my daughter had a great graduation party), I showed up here expecting a vicarious thrill to the see 20-30 TR's of the weekend at Beacon since it just opened and lots of people were making plans for getting out there.

 

I see nothing.

 

Could somebody advise if it was empty out there or if it was hot and cold running people? Were the routes dirty or was there fresh rockfall from the winter like last year.

 

Anyone get out there?

Edited July 27, 2004 by billcoe

[RyanTriplett]

I went there with the intention to "check it out", while my wife spent Saturday participating in STP. There were only 3 groups that I saw actually climbing ...

[texplorer]

I got there about 7:30 on opening day and saw several parties but noone was as dumb as my girlfriend and myself to start the SE corner with 1 hour of daylight left. The rock was relatively clean except for a dead falcon I lobbed off. Didn't get to check much else out as it was dark for most of the route. maybe I'll be able to get one day this weekend.

[bigwalling]

I would have kept the falcon and claimed to have killed it. Just place it on the hood of your car. It would be killer!

[billcoe]

I got there about 7:30 on opening day and saw several parties but noone was as dumb as my girlfriend and myself to start the SE corner with 1 hour of daylight left. The rock was relatively clean except for a dead falcon I lobbed off. Didn't get to check much else out as it was dark for most of the route. maybe I'll be able to get one day this weekend.

 

Carston: Schweeeettt! You got on it and cranked. Anyone else on the corner with you? You kidding about the falcon?

[texplorer]

I don't know about "cranking" the SE corner but yea it is a fun climb. I am not sure but the rock starting the third pitch seemed to be different (like something broke off). Yes, there really was a dead falcon on the SE corner traverse. Oh, watch out for a semi loose rock topping out the first pitch.

[billcoe]

Thanks, I'm going to try to avoid the heat this weekend and skip Beacon.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

At both ends AND THE MIDDLE of the climber spectrum there is a sprayer class.

[ivan]

was out there the day after it opened and also saw little traffic. intended to aid dirty double overhang w/ coylec but ended up to the right. the top of the two routes is extremely overgrown and the aid options very meager and scary. met and climbed the se corner w/ the ultra-guru hippie-dude jim opdyke (sp?) (think he gives you a run fir yer money there, bill, yoda-wise...he said to say howdy)...talk of cia conspiracies, severe misgivings regarding The Man...good times on the secret party ledge. the corner rocks...saw tex's dead bird but i think it was a gull that had been devoured by the falcons. didn't notice any sort of major rockfall on the south side of the rock...blackberries are ripe in sections and make an excellent mid-pitch snack! enjoyed jim's variation for the top 3 pitches of the corner.

[billcoe]

Jim has a heart of gold.

 

I was surprised, shocked and saddened to see Dwight Bishop get the chop last week. Since Dwight was also my age and had more knowledge, skill, strength and vast climbing experience than 99.99% of us, still climbing 5.13 at 50 years old and having previously soloed the North Face of the Eiger would be 2 of many potential examples.

 

It really left an unsettled feeling in my heart and a confusion in my mind. It makes me ruminate how long any of us are going to be here.

 

I'm glad you got to spend some time with Jim: Ivan. Jims now 60, I'm 50. I should give him a call and say hi. Did you finish the SE corner on his Young Warriors route?

Edited July 24, 2004 by billcoe

[ivan]

no we finished from jim's secret party ledge (enjoyed stories of bolt chopping war when someone dared to put a route through land) by traversing right a bit, downclimbing a bit, doing some 5.fun climbing up and right, then cutting back left through 4th class brush to that section of old railing. i think that's different from how tim depicts the standard se corner.

 

jim's a riot w/ his views on tim. said ya'll two had a bit of fun f'cking w/ tim about first ascents and shall we say questionable beta. made much mock miscontent when i showed him his young warriors route is in the guide (though he was very pleased to see no topo nor description of the route in it). we talked a good deal bout that route though, as layton and i went haywire on it last fall, though after conversing w/ jim that made it sound more like we did it just right.

 

agree w/ the heart'a'gold. i can never fault a man who loves climbing and loves the , even if he's older'n dirt and sounds like a 1-man anti-smoking commercial. his geniune antipathy for all things related to technology (i think he views the internet w/ a great deal of suspicision) is refreshing to the extreme.

 

regarding nailing, he gave me n' coylec carte blank to bang the shit outta his old routes, such as dirty double overhang and that really cool one off to the left. really encouraged us to say The Man.

[billcoe]

no we finished from jim's secret party ledge (enjoyed stories of bolt chopping war when someone dared to put a route through land)

 

Did he mention if those were my bolts that got chopped?

 

 

 

jim's a riot w/ his views on tim. said ya'll two had a bit of fun f'cking w/ tim about first ascents and shall we say questionable beta.

 

Actually, Jim asked if I wouldn't share info with Tim O when he heard the guide was being done. When Tim called me, out of repect to Jim and the others who were regulars at Beacon and the Butte, I didn't share. I was pretty straight up with Tim about not sharing though. Later when I bumped into Tim, he thought I had some problem with him cause he remembered my lack of help and then he did the guidebook anyway: there was no truth to it. Tims seems like a nice guy, and I have a lot of respect for the work that went into the guide. I have not thanked him for some niceities of layout I noticed to spread the climbing load, but I will if I see ever see him in person. My preferance is to generally not say anything to someone rather than to say something intentionally misleading. That does, however, explain some of the many things which are incorrect in the Climbing Guide to Portland area book.

 

 

really encouraged us to say The Man.

 

Some things never change, fortunatly!

 

Sounds like you had a great time!

[ivan]

bill, he didn't say whose bolt's they were, but made it sound like it was a long time ago. i did see at least 1 shiny newish bolt about 20 feet above the ledge though, so perhaps more were added afterwards? looks downright hard to go strait up from there, specially after taking advantage of the party ledge's recreational opportunities.

[markd]

Hey Bill,

I made it out for the first four days of Beacon Rock. It was good to be back out in The Gorge climbing on long cracks. The rock is as beautiful as ever and the routes are fairly clean.

 

I'll be heading back up this Wed and Thurs for some climbing.

 

As far as nailing.............please do not nail at Beacon. The Aid routes their will go free........Last year is proof of that. Furthurmore Beacon Rock is definitely not a choss pile or a big wall, arguably the only place nailing should occur.

[texplorer]

regarding nailing, he gave me n' coylec carte blank to bang the shit outta his old routes, such as dirty double overhang and that really cool one off to the left. really encouraged us to say The Man.

 

Ivan and all,

 

I pleed with all of you not to nail. I agree with Mark that many of these old nail-up lines are now in the realm of freeness. If you really need to nail or learn to nail like me then there are some better less traveled options for this very close to beacon. Even Opdike can give you some more suitable places to nail.

 

Thanks, Tex

[billcoe]

Hmmm, I'm not in that realm of leading where I can go out and free an unclimbed aid route. It seemed to me that it would be a nice thing to smooth out the sharp areas for the fingers though. But both Mark and Tex should be listened too.

 

Guys, I have a cliff in mind which would be perfect. Furthermore, it's closer to PDX than Beacon. Thats the upside.

 

Downside, it's only @80-100 feet high, has a lot of Poison Oak, and its on private property. There are no, no trespassing signs or issues.........yet. But it should be kept fairly low key. I'll PM you.

[markd]

I also know the area that Bill is talking about and would be glad to share that info as well in a PM. I could also give some beta on the routes that are currently established. There is only one other group of people that I notice climbing their and the potential is huge for new one pitch routes.

cheers

 

mark

[GearLvr]

I have to agree with Mark, Tex, and the rest of the Beacon climbers that I have met who agree that the level of free climbing has been taken to a point that new NAILING is not needed or desired at Beacon.

[billcoe]

pm'ed Ivan and Chris that location already.

 

 

Also, some of the routes at the Butte which get 1 ascent every 3-15 years would most likely be fine? (I'm asking here, not telling, if you have an objection, I understand).

 

Specifically, Wisdom Tooth, the crack Gary Rall and I nailed like 20+ years ago in the center of the guardrail wall which more than likely hasn't been done again, and the crack to the left of Jealous Rage are some which come to mind.

 

NOW FOR MY SPECIAL QUESTION

 

Ran into Jim O a bit ago myself. In our conversation, I asked if it was finally OK to rebolt our "old Fart Variation" to young warriors which was chopped 2 years ago. Location: From the first belay bolts, 2 P - go straight up and step right into the diheadral, staight up easy stuff @ 20-30 more feet, then step left (crux, @ 10B) and up into a left sloping ramp 40 feet up which ends at the P2 belay. This is a 3+ star pitch when clean and really adds to that magnificent route IMO. Without bolts, it would have an X rating and be dirty from lack of ascents on top of that.

 

He said fine with him. OK to Bolt. If anyone has objections, I'm open to suggestion and would like to hear your thoughts now.

 

No need to yell or scream here, I'm just soliciting opinions and am flexable.

 

Now, that you've thought it through, what do you think about power drilling VS hand drilling it assuming you thought it was OK to put in a few bolts? Thinking 2 bolt min, 4 bolt max in @70 feet. SS bolts and hangers.

 

I know theres this anti-bolting thing out there - worse than the Butte, so heres your chance to talk instead of chop.

 

 

[sketchfest]

You know Bill, this is a great discussion to have and I think this is as good a place as any to start it. Bolt or trad, nail or free…blah, blah, blah the debates rage on. I haven’t been climbing as long as some of the people on this board and I haven’t ever gotten caught up in these arguments. I love to climb and I don’t care if I climb a super popular sporto route, a gear gobbling crack or even a damn boulder in the middle of the woods; to me it all has worth. The only times I get bent out of shape are when I find a new bolt line right next to an existing line or bolts get added to an existing line that aren’t necessary. Recently, at the Butte specifically, anchors are getting chopped for no apparent reason on routes that have been established and climbed for years. My feeling is that if you are replacing bolts on an existing route, replace only the ones that need it, don’t add more because you don’t feel comfortable. If it’s a new line and there is no natural protection, add only what is needed to make it safe. As far as hand vs power, having worked construction since I was out of high school, drilling through concrete by hand is nothing short of suk. Power drill by dawn, climbing by noon.

 

Bill the one thing that struck me from the few conversation that we’ve had is that you climbed with most of these guy’s at one time or another and even had a route or two of your own chopped i.e. Young Warriors, did any of the choppers give you any indication as to why or what they thought about all of this?

[GearLvr]

Bill, do you have any idea who or why your variation was chopped? Seems like a pitch worth climbing if it truely gets a 3+ star rating.

 

As for power vs. hand drilling; many of the bolts/anchors that have been replaced lately at Beacon have been done with power drills so I don't think you would run into any problems running a drill out there.

 

I am interested in this variation since I have been on YW several times and never noticed the chopped variation you are talking about. Lastly, 2-4 bolts in 70-ft of climbing does not sound like bad bolt placement to me as long as no good natrual placements are bolted. Good luck reestablishing this variation; I hope I have the chance to try it this summer.

[ivan]

thanks for the alternative site bill and mark, and i had no intention of nailing anything at beacon if i could manage it any other way. i'm not planning on hammering anything into the sacred walls of beacon, but found it amusing that jim, who seems to revere the place beyond all others, could care less on the subject. all this said, as i'm not now nor shall i ever be a free-climbing god, i soundly blow my nose in the general direction of everyone who tells me i can't nail something that's been nailed in the past just because they're better climbers than me. i've dug everyone i've run into in the portland cragg'n scene and am hardly trying to make enemies.

[billcoe]

thanks for the alternative site bill and mark, and I had no intention of nailing anything at beacon if I could manage it any other way. i'm not planning on hammering anything into the sacred walls of beacon, but found it amusing that jim, who seems to revere the place beyond all others, could care less on the subject.

 

Ivan, you are welcome. Take Nolse with ya if you can hook up, he asked for the info too.

 

Jim likes nailing. Which might be why he borrowed my Beautiful Forest Molinar for a quick trip to Yos and I didn't get it back for 8 years. This leads to, and helps explain, the rest of the story and the other questions on the bolt chopping.

 

I broke my back up hammer, a “cheap-assed Cassin lightweight for the Alps POS job” retro-bolting Rhythm Method (called thus if the full 80' pitch done on moss with only 1 sloppy micro nut and 1 LA pin in the expanding flake) Kelly Warden and I renamed it Raindance if you clip any of the 7 bolts leading only 70' to the new chains and beautiful 3/8 bolts).

 

Whoever told Jim Robinson that the dude tossing the bolts in out there needs his assed kicked: you know who did it now. Yup. Me. Except I don't really need my ass kicked. I was, however, that dude.

 

See, I did the FA of Rhythm Method with Jim Opdyke and plain forgot about it. For @15 years. Till I started telling Jim the story about how Kelly Warden and I went and did this Schweeet little slab, 7 solid bolts, broke my Cassin on it. I asked Jim if someone else had jumped on it before, cause @ 1/2 way up was an old f*ed manky rusty LA, driven to the eye, but not too solid. I told Jim I had thought 2nd ascent must be the best name, cause of the pin – someone must have climbed it previously, and I wondered if someone retied (threaded through the pin) and down climbed, perhaps only climbing ½ the way to where our new pretty anchors were? Then he reminded me that I was the person who drove that steel. The whole story of how I pounded the LA in and screaming, SCREAMING at Jim and the other spectators that they were about be killed and crushed as I saw this huge massive block, my best pro off the deck and @30 some+ feet up, bigger than 2 VW busses, as I saw the widening of the crack and the physical movement of this monster block from hell as I pounded the pin in, SCREAMING, GET THE HELL AWAY FROM THE BASE, MOVE BACK THIS BLOCKS COMING OFF....MOOOOOVVVEEEETHEFUCKBAAACCCCKKKK MOTHERFUCKERS OR YOU'RE DEAD!!! I couldn't lower off the piece, pro too weak and fearing that weight might at any time pop the block, so I gritted my teeth, backed up the pin 5 feet up the crack which defined the block with a small nut, and continued up, looking for near non-existent pro. Fortunately, now the base was clear - including J.O., my belayer, who although there was a rope which went down toward the ground, he was well back, and wisely giving plenty of slack so that:

A) He wouldn't accidentally pull me off, and/or

B) Should the block pull: which looked imminent as the movement was so rapid: it wouldn't hit the rope and pull me off. So this being the Pacific NW, and being a ground up FA, it was very mossy, dirty, with lots of loose rock, the no pro thing was just another nail in the coffin so to speak which when added to the 20+ feet of slack made it look a little dicey. OK I've had worse, but this was bad. Well, some of you might know that feeling: you just sack up and hope ya live. It's too hard and loose to down-climb, you sure as hell don't want a multi-ton block balancing above your head: and you have hope for a piece above and the moves look like they will go..... you know the pro below is shit, so just do your best. It why FAs can be so hard, even when later thay are so easy. (The route immediatly left, Boardway, at 5.6-5.7 was a similar story).

 

I suspect that like when a train hits a car or some sort of severe accident, no one who lives in the accident will remember the immediate events, and perhaps I forgot the route for that very reason. I needed to blank it out to move on. Most likely I forgot for the same reason I forgotten other climbs, but that’s a real long and involved story. If you look at my right side forehead and see a bump and a Harry Potter looking scar that used to have 8 stitches, well, that's my excuse for forgetting things.

 

But I'm trying to answer the question and that scar is a real long story so lets skip that.

 

I've heard people call that Raindance climb 5.10A now, cleaned off, with the 7 bolts in. That's not accurate: way over IMO. In fact Kelly and I cleaned it and bolted it on a day where we had to stop and lower off 4 times it rained so hard, we lowered off and ran to the Arena of Terror to try and unsuccesfully stay dry (the real Arena of Terror, the overhanging blocks so named by Steve Strauch is right uphill from Raindance, not the guidebook call out around to the South side) When I finally led it was sopping wet, with such slippery wet mud moss and choss that a banana slug would have cheered for it. With the bolts in it was easy. Now, with bolts, it might be an 8, maybe 5.7. But then, well then, before the bolts: venturing into the unknown and staring death in the face - with loose manky partner-pancake-flattening blocks about to kill my friends and crush my belay and peeling out on dirty wet moss and sloppy loose rock with minimal pro, with bananna slugs gleefully cheering me on.... well, well it must have easily been harder than 10++, maybe 11. But that was a long time ago.

 

Where was I? Oh, broke my hammer.

 

So years later, when my old time climbing partner Bob McMahon called and said he and Dave English had spied a line which needed bolts for sure, which straightened out the fugly 2nd pitch of Young Warriors: the same 2nd pitch, named the butthole pitch by Jim O, the one which I'd backed off of doing the FA with Jim years before for being chicken and having small testicals: I just didn't have a real hammer. Jim had my Forrest hammer.

 

But I had a cordless Milwaukie roto-hammer!

 

Yes, Jim O had invited me out years before to take a shot at the FA lead of what would later be a relatively easy pitch, the Butthole pitch. At like @ 10a/b is the range I hear now, and that’s about right I think, I do it all the time…...easy. Knowing it will go. Clean traverse, having a bolt and tcu's for pro, makes a huge difference. Then I'd traversed out there into no mans land, land of the Banana slug and choss and moss, it just seemed so F*ed. Now you simply clip and step. Then.....well, I went out there on that loose traverse.... starred that Butthole square in the face and thought long and hard to myself: this stinks I thought. I’m scared and I wish these f*en Banana slugs would shut the f up.

 

To answer one question. Yes, there was shrinkage. No question. No need to look or check. If you don’t know what shrinkage is and you are male, you can induce shrinkage easily by jumping naked into freezing water on a hot day. We’re talking Severe Shrinkage and it should be capitalized and is not to trivalized in any way. But I'm about to tell you the part which might save your life, so please stick with me for a moment if you're bored.

 

Now listen to this part cause it is important. Later Kenny did the FA, Kenny climbed hard, solid. Bigger stones than most of us, no question. Kenny walks the easy banana slug traverse, clips the bolt Jim had put in, pros the crack, makes the moves…… and falls........ then................T..H..E.. R.O.P.E. P..E..E..L..S.. S..O.. Y..O..U.. C..A..N.. S..E..E.. T..H..E.. W..H..I..T..E.. I..N..N..E..R.. C..O..R..E....

Almost turning 1 long rope into 2 short pieces. You see, Jim was belaying off the 2 rappel bolts at the end of P1. The rope went around that sharp projection of rock you don't notice and just separated, blew apart, when Kenny fell and the line became taut. Then Kenny climbs that pitch anyway, just finishes it with the white inner core showing and everything since the Kern had stripped off. So the 2 main points here are: don't belay that pitch from the rap bolts, step up and left @12 feet to a bolt at your knee, and back it up with some nuts. You will avoid the edge on the rope. Oh, point #2, Kenny had big stones. And Severe Shrinkage I'm fairly certain. That's 3 points though.

 

So Dave Bob and I show up a long time after the Butthole pitch is a fact of life and Kennys stones have returned from his Adams Apple region. I still don’t like that pitch. Never have since a long time before Kenny almost died on it. I tolerate it cause the YW route is so spectacular. But that’s me personally, I dislike it, others do not feel such as I. Looking up, I remembered the more direct line I had origonlly seen with Jim. It had been my first choice to be the 2nd pitch of YW when Jim and I were out trying the butthole FA. Jim blew the line off but I thought it would go. Go it did, 10 years after the Butthole. We did the bolting: on rappel, with a power drill. Yes, you guessed it, my Milwaukee Cordless. Dave Drilled, Bob popped the bolts in and I led the route. (they were tired and I'd just been standing around cheering them on.) Nice to have friends who do the heavy lifting and allow you to have your way with them afterwards. It was a great pitch. The climbing was easy till the crux, 40' above the 2 rap bolts on p1. The short 10b/c traverse left crux was pro'ed by a single bolt which was placed so that the leader and the follower were both protected.

 

Hey, never lacking for excuses, my drift pin was missing on the hand drill too, and the bit I’d put in didn’t reach the key-hole, and was now both dull and stuck. What’s a mother to do? Choosy mothers chose Milwaukiee. At least this mother F* did anyway.

 

So, turned out there was really a "Bolting Committee" with a few people who wouldn't have a bad word to say to me or about me on it. I not making that up. But I learned about that later, after I drilled ‘em and filled ‘em (apologies to the kind and late Mike Puddy, who should have been awarded “best route named by a dentist” for that one at Smith). I also learned, later, well, I knew this one in advance really, that many of the Beacon old-timers were fearful of sport climbers coming out and turning the place into a rock gym. That once one show up, like cockroaches when allowed to multiply, then there would be bolted lines and hot and cold running dickheads everywhere. That whole crappy attitude often found on beginners, who coincidentally seem to be bolting at the Butte and should cease and desist IMO. Well the regulars were fearful that the authorities would see a bunch of dickheads out there running around doing stupid things and getting injured (like the 4 humans who pitched off of the Butte this Spring) and that said authorities would see this scene: not support it and close Beacon to climbing.

 

 

I understand that attitude. So the idea was no roto-hammers, no bolting on rappel, no dickheads. Well that had been the plan till I showed up looking much like a rat turd in the sugar bowl.

 

Where was I – oh, so I walked up and see Jim out there one day. I tell him about my “new” route, 2nd ascent now called Raindance. Then he tells me I was the dumb Son of a B who had pounded that pin and tells the whole story till he gets to the part of the loose block and then I remember it all. etc etc

 

In the course of the conversation I say “hey, we fixed your route”. Huh? Says Jim. Well, Bob, Dave and I rap bolted an addition to YW with rotohammers blah blah. I’m sure all he heard was “rap bolted” and “rotohammers”, not best pitch out here and a great addition to the best line etc etc. Well, he tells a few people etc etc and it gets the chop. Of course – the pitch, named “The Old Fart Variation” on Young Warriors got repeated and stories told about how awesome it was, and it was getting popular. So was YW. Then it got chopped. Can’t reward bad behavior evidently!

 

Since then, there has been some solid clean pretty FA’s done (ask Mark Deffenbach above as he’s out there doing a lot of it with his friends) and the feared rangers/sport climber clash never happened as well. Maybe the old-timers just figured that being a dickhead was part of the human condition which we all share, every one of us, not exclusive rap-bolting sporto’s.

 

So, Hanger, T and I happened by, just walking around the base of Beacon and we see Jim just the other day. I asked him about it. Times change: now, it looks like having a few bolts in a pitch, even if roto-hammered by a tired older fella (me) might not be the end of the world after all. So I'm asking others, Jim's OK with it now.

 

PS, this was the short version.

 

What was the question again? Well, please re-read my post, I must have answered something in it?

 

Oh, the moral(s) of the story.

1) Don't rap bolt with a roto-hammer in no mans land.

@) Support your local bolting committee.

[billcoe]

Oh, shit, all that yapping and I forgot to detail where the old fart variation is. From the P1 rap bolts, look straight up @12' up and @ couple of feet to the r, nearly directly above the rap bolts, its easy climbing if you want to go up, look at a chopped 3/8 stainless bolt then downclimb. The first bolt is chopped there. From the 1st chopped bolt, hop up r. and climb straight up past that, in the easy 5.7? shallow dihedral @ 20-30 more feet. Look, left, can you see the shallow slab 10' left heading up and left the 25-30' to the P2 belay? Thats the route. Only of couple of sketch moves, which once you've made them seem easier. Saw a 5.11 leader take 20 min to work it out once. But the bolt is right at your chin essentially.

 

BTW, Mark, straight up and easing L will also go at like hard 11++/12. There is absolutly no pro on it, needs bolts. I have toproped it previously after several attempts. It's a great TR problem as well, but would be a great hardman lead, but would be fairly close to the Old Fart Variation.

 

You or Tex should go fer it, your harder men than I.

 

Course it might get chopped again. I'm not sure if the bolting committe is still meeting. I heard (rumor) Gary Rall was on it. Garys a great guy, ask him.

[ivan]

nice bill, looks like you're drinking espresso in the evening these days!

[billcoe]

nice bill, looks like you're drinking espresso in the evening these days!

 

 

 

Theres more words where those came from!