eternalX Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 I was up at exit 38 the other day and watched as ppl threaded their ropes through the chain links at the top to rapel down. Is that standard operating procedure? Who else would you get down without leaving gear up there? Just downclimb? Quote
snoboy Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 That's what the chains are for.. Some people will also lower off them (not toprope) and some people will say that is wrong because of the wear it causes to the chains. Quote
chucK Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Yes that's standard procedure. Some people lower though the chains even, but that is frowned upon by some, especially at sandy places as the grit in the rope, combined with running the rope under load through the chains, can abrade the chain links and wear them down. Usual procedure is to put draws up there for all toproping and lowering until the last person needs to get down. Then last person runs the rope through the chains and raps. Pulling the unweighted rope through the chains probably does not do the damage that a weighted rope would. Quote
Figger_Eight Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Yeah...its kinda spooky sometimes to see how thin the bottom link is on some of the chain anchors at some crags because of the groove worn into them from repeated lowers and topropes. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Yeah...its kinda spooky sometimes to see how thin the bottom link is on some of the chain anchors at some crags because of the groove worn into them from repeated lowers and topropes. Sheesh, heck yeah. See most of the routes at the Gallery and Wall of Confusion at Red Rocks . Keep meaning to add a couple pairs of quick links and some mini Vice-Grips to the pack for those occasions. Quote
Drederek Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Who else would you get down without leaving gear up there? Just downclimb? I have seen some guys "downfall" a route. They had found Fossil Rock on their own, got some carabiners and a rope somewhere and would lead a climb on single biners then when they got to the top they would hang on, unclip, and drop off. They thought this was fun! We showed them how to thread thru the chains and lower and explained how all those falls were hard on the rope , the bolts, their harnesses and their bodies. I think we eventually convinced them. Quote
eternalX Posted July 1, 2004 Author Posted July 1, 2004 So on your last ascent, you use slings/runners to clip into the chain and harness, remove the rope from the harness and run it through the chain links, push the atc through the rope and connect back to the harness, unclip the slings/runners from the chain and finally repel down? That seems easy enough, but how do you secure the rope while taking off the harness and moving through the chain? i could jsut see myself dropping the rope at this critical juncture and being, what we call in america, 'fucked'. Quote
Greg_W Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Clip into anchor with daisy or other sling with locker; two points of anchor are preferred. Take a length of rope up and tie an overhand-on-a-bight and clip this to a biner on your harness. Untie and thread through chains. Once you have sufficient rope through chains, unclip knot from biner, untie it, and continue threading the rope until you get halfway, or it touches down with sufficient extra. Sometimes, I'll thread the rope, tie another knot in the rope, clip that one off before unclipping the other, but that's being overly safe. Once you have sufficient rope to reach the deck, set up your rappel device and unclip from the anchor and descend. Quote
boatskiclimbsail Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 but that's being overly safe. Besides being a very suspect phrase when it comes to rock climbing, I've had to bring ropes up to more parties than I can count on one hand because they dropped their flippin rope through the rap chains. This extra "overly safe" step takes less than 4 seconds (a figure 8 in the tail of the rope - which you should be tying anyway for a rappel) and will save your would-be rescuer a half hour of grief as well as the embarassment of hanging from a set of chains while someone rescues you from a bolted climb. Quote
Farrgo Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 So when y'all thread through the chains, do you mean that you just pass the rope through the chains i.e. if one link were to break your rope would not be connected to anything? Personally I have and will always thread through two of the chain links and then lower. I read a story somewhere of guys who just threaded through (over) the chains, a link broke and they fell into space. Quote
CPOly Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 Many times when there are chains, there is one set of chains coming off of each hangar or bolt for a total of two sets of chains. Thread your rope through the bottom link in both sets of chains. Therefore if one link breaks in one of the chains, you have your redundency in the other set of chains and bolt. Quote
Off_White Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 Well, and I confess to doing quite a bit of toproping through the chains on the cliff at my place, but the total traffic is very low, and the chains are very burly. There isn't any discernable wear at this point in time... Quote
catbirdseat Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Well, and I confess to doing quite a bit of toproping through the chains on the cliff at my place, but the total traffic is very low, and the chains are very burly. There isn't any discernable wear at this point in time... Not to mention the fact that if the end links wear, you are there to replace them. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted July 7, 2004 Posted July 7, 2004 Well, and I confess to doing quite a bit of toproping through the chains on the cliff at my place, but the total traffic is very low, and the chains are very burly. There isn't any discernable wear at this point in time... You are single-handedly ruining the sport of rock climbing for everyone by this selfish and inconsiderate action. DFA's callin' the Access Fund on YOU, pal. Some people ... think they own the crags or something. Quote
Alpinfox Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 I posted this elsewhere, but it seemed appropriate here: What I don't understand is why in a crag setting where pitches are set at 100' or less, why so many people feel the need to belay at the top. Why not rap down clean the pitch and TR the newbie through the chains? I know, I know, your not supposed to TR through the chains, screw that, they don't wear that fast and they are cheap. I'll gladly replace any chain at PG that wears to the point of danger, let me know if one gets bad. It is far easier, not to mention more comfortable, to belay on the ground. Plus communication is a non issue. Always seems silly to me. TRing through the chains sux. Chain anchors cost about $20 and yes the DO wear out. It also gets your rope dirtier (steel chains that have been out in the elements put more shit on your rope than clean aluminum biners). BTW, if you were serious about being willing to make a personal financial contribution to anchor replacement, please Click Here. When repeatedly TRing a climb with a beginner who doesn't know how to clean an anchor, you can attach two draws to the bolts AND run the rop through the chains so that rope is weighting the draws. All the newbie has to do is take the draws off and lower off the chains when everyone is done climbing. Quote
Szyjakowski Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 That's what the chains are for.. Some people will also lower off them (not toprope) and some people will say that is wrong because of the wear it causes to the chains. word. topropin chains is bad form...and wears them out quicker for the next guy; which in fact may be YOU!!!!!!!!! Quote
snoboy Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 So when y'all thread through the chains, do you mean that you just pass the rope through the chains i.e. if one link were to break your rope would not be connected to anything? Personally I have and will always thread through two of the chain links and then lower. I read a story somewhere of guys who just threaded through (over) the chains, a link broke and they fell into space. Somtimes the chain is a single piece that connects the two bolts (or is two pieces joined by a quicklink or something, same difference)... That was the situation in the fatality that you describe. The rope was simply looped over the chain, not threaded through any links. In that situation, if any part of the system fails, then :splat: More commonly in my experience is to find two bolts each with a length of chain attached. The rope goes through the bottom link of each piece, as described by Cpoly above. Quote
sk Posted July 11, 2004 Posted July 11, 2004 as a rule I never use the chains, except to rap off at the end of my top ropong session. I build an anchor with slings and beiners of the bolts to top rope off of. the fewer components there are the fewer things there are that can possibly go wrong. you still want to back every thing up, but I tend to be a contriole freak. I like using my own gear. so says the TOP ROPE QUEEN Quote
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