jjd Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 smokers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 The business going down arguement is bullshit. I know so many people that would go out more if it didn't smell like shit everywhere. well, just because those people would go out doesn't necessarily imply that the business would do just as well if they also lost some of their smoking customers ... but i also know quite a few people who won't go out to places where there is smoking. imho, it is much nicer not to be subjected to it and i do shy away from places that are bad. not that i agree with making it a government-induced ban, but to the business owners who make the choice for themselves. it so sucks to go home and smell like you've spent a week cooped up in a coffin full of cigarette smoke. btw, any such ban should include the area outside of the entryways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 One job I do want the government to do is protect my health. They hurt my health. It's a public environment. The smoker doesn't have the right to invade my personal space, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeezix Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Knowing what we know about the health effects of tobacco smoke, anyone who smokes today is either stupid or pathetic ...because they're addicted and can't quit. Smoking is expensive, it makes you stink, it makes you ugly (when you get that smoker's face...) it makes you part of the loser class. I still see parents driving in their cars smoking with the windows rolled up and a little baby in the car seat in back. I smoked for two or three years about thirty years ago, then I got into climbing and the smoking went away. What little pleasure or stimulation you may get from smoking tobacco ain't worth it. I suggest you quit smoking. Fuck the ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 personally, i'd be happy if they'd stop dropping their flaming non-biodegradable filters everywhere, especially out their car windows. hey, moron, there's an ash tray in your car. give a hoot, don't pollute. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 The real sad thing is the lower classes tend to smoke more, and they are the ones that can afford it least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyWorld Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 The real sad thing is the lower classes tend to smoke more, and they are the ones that can afford it least. Still mad your mom spent your college money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 MollyWorld, the latest incarnation of Martlet No thanks, my mom, or anybody in my family, doesn't smoke. I was just point out the sad truth about the smoking demographics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 .. anyone who smokes today is either stupid or pathetic ... it makes you part of the loser class. Im sure if you met me you would make an exception. Joshk, that is quite a generalization dont you think? I would be curious to see some research done on the subject. What defines "lower class" and Do they REALLY smoke more than those in the "middle" and "Upper" class? Foraker, I agree. If you are going to smoke I think its only curteous to not litter. I once pulled up next to someone at a light who did this and offered them my ashtray. They were pissed and just rolled up their window. Anyway, all this judgement about smokers/non-smokers again is beside the point of the ban. Its time for me to go have a smoke and then head out for some climbing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeezix Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 .. anyone who smokes today is either stupid or pathetic ... it makes you part of the loser class. Im sure if you met me you would make an exception. You're probably a very nice person, but I suspect many non-smokers think the same thing about smokers: Smoking ... makes you stink, it makes you ugly (when you get that smoker's face...) it makes you part of the loser class... What little pleasure or stimulation you may get from smoking tobacco ain't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I love smoking I just don't do it anymore. Kinda like sleeping with 16 year olds No biggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/tobacco/demographics_tobacco.htm Demographics on smoking. People who are poorer and undereducated smoke more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double_E Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Demographics on smoking. People who are poorer and undereducated smoke more. which of course make it much, much easier/convenient for elitist, self-righteous non-smokers to curl their noses at those who smoke. some seem to almost see us as being on the same moral footing as child molesters and white supremacists. (not saying anything about any individuals or individual posts on this thread... just seems to be the general consensus amongst a LOT of non-smokers out there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinore Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 There was an interesting experiment in Helena, Montana, when a smoking ban in public places was put into effect. After about six months, the bad was ruled illegal, and smoking resumed. There is only one hospital in Helena, so all people who had suspected heart attacks were taken there. They went back and looked at their data. During the six months the smoking ban was in effect, the number of heart attacks dropped significantly. When the ban was overturned, the number of heart attacks reached their previous level. I am not sure myself about whether people should have a right to smoke, whether bar or restaurants owners should have a right to permit it, whether it should be left to market forces to decide, etc. But one thing that seems pretty clear is that smoking bans do have a positive influence on health. What I wonder about and what was not made clear from the study is whether the reduced number of heart attacks is due to fewer people being injured by second hand smoke or whether smokers were helped by being forced to smoke less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalX Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 One job I do want the government to do is protect my health. They hurt my health. It's a public environment. The smoker doesn't have the right to invade my personal space, IMHO. Then don't go to a smokey bar. I don't see why you can't be repsonsible for your own personal choices. I don't need the government wasting its time and resources on trying to protect me from myself. I believe the government should not interfere with private business especially regarding an epidemic where the repercussions are so widely known and documented. I'm so sick of you people without an ounce of personal responsibility. When I go to a restaurant that has a crappy atmosphere, bad food, or that is really smoky, I DON'T GO BACK. It's quite simple really. Also, I am NOT a smoker. --tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quoteI believe the government should not interfere with private business especially regarding an epidemic where the repercussions are so widely known and documented. I'm so sick of you people without an ounce of personal responsibility. When I go to a restaurant that has a crappy atmosphere, bad food, or that is really smoky, I DON'T GO BACK. It's quite simple really. Also, I am NOT a smoker. --tim You should claim I have no "personal responsibility" to my face. The very presence of smoking is a violation of my space. THey can be in the park and you can smell it 10 feet away. With that smell comes the harmful effects. I dont care how small, I shouldn't have to deal with it. Obviously banning it outside, etc. is ridiculous, but it's fair to do it inside. What about the employees who simply need work and have to put up with the smoke. Saying the entire restaurant and bar industry should find different work is idiotic. Get a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyWorld Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 If they don't like working in smoky conditions, don't work in that bar. The owner will find people that don't mind. If you don't like eating or drinking in smoky conditions, don't patronize that establishment. People who don't mind will, it will close, or it will become smoke free. Business owners should be able to decide for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icegirl Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I agree with this. Vote with your dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 When I was living in Europe, I smoked and at fat-assed american woman came up to me and said "you know... smoking is very bad for your health." I said back, "Ya know what lady, being fat is bad for ya too." She huffed and walked away and as I translated for the two friends that didn't know english, they started laughing their asses off. At that moment the lady flipped us off and told us to fuck off. Helluva day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I think I'll just do the easier thing and vote with my voting rights when an initiative comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icegirl Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 voting with your dollar is not easy enough for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeezix Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I can't help it ...and I apologize for sounding like an arrogant prick... but I just have strong feelings about people who smoke --now that we know better. It's kind of like people that choose to drive with their seat belt unbuckled. There is also a social cost in medical care for all the morons that still smoke. I am admittedly judgemental on this topic, but I'm willing to stick to my position. I don't hate you if you smoke. I think you stink. I wish you'd wake up and quit smoking tobacco. Call me names if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Might as well stop climbing, riding motorcycles, drinking, hang gliding, calling GregW a "Mamma's Boy", small plane piloting, scuba diving, gun toting and the most dangerous of all, driving a car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeezix Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Might as well stop climbing, riding motorcycles, drinking, hang gliding , small plane piloting, scuba diving, and the most dangerous of all, driving a car... Not the same. They don't make you stink like tobacco does, they don't make you ugly (you know, that sickly wrinkly yellow complexion of the hardcore lifer smoker), they're not as risky, and they return more pleasure for the cost(risk). Smoking tobacco doesn't make sense. People start when they're young and want to look cool, then they get addicted. Smokers are fooling themselves if they argue that they like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icegirl Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 fuck! I'll have nothing to do?!??! Might as well just settle down, get married, have a kid or two and grow old. oh, wait, I according to your list I can still spray on cc.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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