swaterfall Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I was wondering if anyone has any experience modifying their leashed Quarks to leashless or doing the same to a pair of vipers. My google searches have been fruitless so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 if you take off the leashes that come stock, you will have leashless tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaterfall Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 Dru thanx so much. I couldn't figure it out on my own. Â Next question. Has anyone fabricated an index finger and/or pinky rest for their quarks? BD sells a pinky rest for the viper and I've seen some mods for an index finger rest, but nothing for the quarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 the quark comes with a pinky rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jja Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 the quark comes with a pinky rest yeah, but it's a sloper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jja Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 (edited) How about the grivel index finger rest? I've only played with it in the store, but it looks almost universal if you can get the wrap around band that goes around the shaft to fit ?? Â I've also met someone up in lillooet that had modified their bd viper with an index finger thing by drilling a hole through the shaft at the appropriate spot and then bolting on an emt (electical conduit) clamp (the kind designed to hold the tubing secure to a wall). He added a whole lot of skate board tape and voila !! looked kinda ghetto, but he said it worked just fine. Â .. and drilling a hole in the shaft can't be too big a deal - after all the quarks already come that way for the stud part of the clippy leashless system. Edited May 17, 2004 by jja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I've been told by several people that Petzl/Charlet is coming out with a removable pinky rest for the Quark (similar to the one for the Viper), fairly soon. Â I just hope it is compatible with the Quarks out now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 The way the grivel attachment mounts prevents one from using it for a pinky rest as the mounting piece is above the rest so you can't clasp your hand around the shaft. I use it only as it is intended (a trigger finger mount). A word of caution: trigger finger mounts without pinky rests (which are found on most leash less tools) is a great way to screw up your fingers (pulled tendons anyone?). A friend of mine just duct taped cam hooks to his... worked okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Here's an excerpt from an email I got from Twight regarding the grivel trigger mounts:  Good luck if you go north in winter, Mark  P.S. Cascade and Mixte have the geometry to match the Tech and Top Wing tools. They cannot be used on Alp Wing. And be careful of putting triggers on tools that do not have a "pommel" to support your hand, it puts a lot of stress on the trigger finger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 P.S. Cascade and Mixte have the geometry to match the Tech and Top Wing tools. They cannot be used on Alp Wing. Â hey, that's something i've been wondering about. i have a pair of the top machines (leashless) but i want to now add a pair of "more traditional" alpine tools to the mix - not that i want leashed tools , but i want tools with plunge-able shafts. (i haven't had any problems with the finger trigger but then again i don't do much wi6 or above .. yet. ) anyway, my point is i really like the alp wings, but since the geometry is different from my top machines is that going to make it more difficult to switch between two sets of tools during the season? just curious about other people's experiences ... Â (what would be cool is if the tech wing came with a detachable pommel that could be interchanged with a totally smooth-plunging piece.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Serl Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 the quark will come stock with a hooked pinky-rest next winter (I saw the prototype at the outdoor retailer show in january). the rest will be available as a retro-fit for older quarks, but will require minor modification of the tool. it looked really good! mine'll get a pair for sure. cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaterfall Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 Thanks Don, I recieved an email from Petzl regarding the Quark and it pretty much says the same thing.  "We are releasing a spare part this fall that will allow you to do just that. It will attach to the end of the quark with nut and bolt but I believe there will be some modification necessary to attach it. I don’t know specifics yet as this has not even arrived yet. As fall gets closer (August) we should have more information for you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammut_rep Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Lawgoddess, FYI, the Tech Wing and Top Wing go away this coming Fall. They will be replaced by two new leashless tools. Besides, shouldn't everyone own at least two sets of tools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 first, i have to acknowledge not fully understanding the reason for the leashless trend (old fart, you know), but aren't all these ergonomical devices (pinky rest, etc ..) somewhat defeating the purpose of reaching a freer form of ice climbing. in other words, how is the threshold defined between unfair advantage (i.e. leash) and fair advantage (rests, and such)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 the point being you can do things without leashes, like swap tools from hand to hand, hook tools together end-to-end, get in and out of figure-9's, etc much more easily than with leashes. if the only point of going leashless was to make it harder to climb do you really think so many people would be doing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 i wasn't really aware that the techniques you mention were widespreadly useful on most climbs. or at least used commonly enough to offset the advantages offered by leashes. but perhaps my perception of the number of people going leashless is not accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 j_b is right. Soon Will Gadd will write an article on how leashless tools are aid, and will saw all the pinky rests off his tools. To make the M13s hard again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Serl Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 i won't be going leashless any time soon, except maybe for hard, complicated dry tooling. i don't have the forearm strength to grip that hard, that long. i see no sense in making what feels like middling 5.10 into middling 5.11! Â that said, dru's right in saying that climbing without leashes allows "moves" and movement that isn't possible when "strapped into" the tools. i found this really troublesome the one day i spent up at "the farm" on blackcomb - lotsa tip-torquing and traversing, and it was VERY problematic releasing the tools once you'd moved beyond them. thought-provoking... Â the "pinky hooks" serve a couple purposes: 1. taking weight - always useful, whether leashed or not, 2. separating your fingers from the ice - again, a "nice" feature, especially with lighter gloves (also nice, for greater dexterity). Â the technology improves, and the sport moves along. this has always been one of the most appealing aspects of ice-climbing. when i look back on the "crap" we used to climb with, i wonder how we did it at all! and meanwhile, the "ease" provided by the new tools and techniques allows me to fool myself into thinking i'm as good or better than i was "back when". i CLIMB harder, but i'm not convinced i'm "better". i'm an "old fart" too... Â all good, cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 2. separating your fingers from the ice - again, a "nice" feature, especially with lighter gloves (also nice, for greater dexterity). Â this was something i didn't realize was a bonus until i heard my leashed partners complaining about mashing their fingers on the ice. somehow, i never had that problem. Â j_b, there are quite a few people climbing leashless. maybe not so much in washington because there's not really any sporty ice around, but if you take a trip to ouray or other places where there is much more nice water ice and mixed climbing i think you'd be surprised. Â climbing leashless is nice and fast. not being tied to my tool i can leave it placed while i shake out quickly and move on with my climbing. plus that other stuff dru said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 i think innovation in tools is great but i was only noting that it was a form of 'aid' (easier to hang on a tool with a pinky rest than one without), which seemed contradictory to the original justification for dropping leashes. Â tlg: i thought as well that many people today were going leashless. my point was that i wasn't certain it was advantageous for most situations, i.e. aren't most of these people climbing ice and doing a little dry tooling on the side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 the pinky rest would have been introduced long ago but for the resistance from the "it makes the shaft harder to plunge" crowd. pinky rests make holding on easier whether you have a leash or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 specialized tools are great for specialists. what ice tools to bring for a climb is often (for me) the most difficult issue to settle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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