John F(ing) Kerry hypocrisy pt XXVI

[cracked]

John Fing

[Winter]

Ok I'm opening Pandora's box here, but what exactly is wrong with John Kerry's and his background? What are yall complainin about to be exact?

[JoshK]

Ok I'm opening Pandora's box here, but what exactly is wrong with John Kerry's and his background? What are yall complainin about to be exact?

 

I asked the same thing, but never really got much of a reply. I know the one big thing is that apparently serving your country with great decoration then returning home and standing up for what is right is "turning your back on your fellow soldiers" or some other sort of crap. The new campaign ads with his shipmates praising him are pretty good. Funny, but I haven't seen anybody from the texas air national guard step up and defend dubya's heroic service in defending the skys of texas from the mighty mexican air force or his piles of concain from law inforcement.

[chucK]

Agreed I asked that of Cracked a while back, and I apologize if I missed it, but I didn't see a reply.

 

Please don't answer with "He's a flip flopper who waffles", puhleeze. We can read that on the Bush-Cheney website.

 

I just asked for one specific instance where you disagree with him, or perhaps one concrete reference for what he flip-flopped on, for example.

[willstrickland]

I'll grant you that he's smarter than he comes across. His basic intellectual ability is not my concern. His narrow-mindedness and Texas redneck loose cannon/frat jock/born-again fundamentalist aspects are what worry me. I personally subscribe to the "can't know every nuance of every issue so surround yourself with people who can elucidate both sides of the issues" school of governance, but letting your underlings recklessly pursue their own agendas is absurd. I'm referring to Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz.

 

A few doozies:

"I don't read the newspapers."

"Bring it on"

"Axis of evil"

"give them a thorough trouncin'"

"Mission accomplished"

[Jim]

The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the -- the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." --GWB Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 ""

[willstrickland]

Kerry suffers from the "curse of the legislator". Any voting record can be spun. If you vote for something, say extending medicare entitlements, and five years later vote against a bill on the same issue because there is a shitload of unrelated pork riders on the bill....then you're a flip-flopper.

 

Who was the last long-time legislator to win the presidency? It's very difficult and the nuanced debate in teh legislative chambers and conference committees is much different than the black and white firm stance issues needed in a popular election. Governors typically have an easier time than legislators. Bush, Clinton, Regan, Carter...all former governors.

[cracked]

Who says I'm complaining about Kerry's background? I don't see him taking a clear stance on anything, which makes me wonder what to expect of this guy in office.

 

I think Fairweather has a beef with Kerry that he brought up in the very first post on this thread, try checking that.

[marylou]

FWIW, Kerry's a guy with a bit of nuance, and not everyone "gets" that. It's a stark contrast to our current "you're either with us, or you're aggain' us" guy.

 

Will, I agree with you WRT Govs versus Sens. Govs ARE more electable, and posess a better "executive skill set." One could say that being a Gov is practive for being Prexy, versus a more "committee" environment in the Congress.

[Winter]

I still haven't heard a single well articulated criticism of Kerry or his political/military records. Quit your f'ing complaining about the guy if you don't have the info to back it up. He plays guitar and snowboards and I'll bet he smokes pot. He's got my vote.

[Mal_Con]

One advantage a legislator particularly a Senator is that this is the only way a candidate can have substantial foreign policy experience. HST, JFK I, and LBJ were all Senators. The waffler argument is ridiculous on its face as it can be made about anyone including the present occupant of the oval orifice.

[JoshK]

Who says I'm complaining about Kerry's background? I don't see him taking a clear stance on anything, which makes me wonder what to expect of this guy in office.

 

I think Fairweather has a beef with Kerry that he brought up in the very first post on this thread, try checking that.

 

Damn, I need to find the article I was talking about, but it addresses this very point. The common strategy, esp. when teh incumbent is strugling is apparently not to nail yourself down to anything particular until nearing the end of the elction when you can capitolize on his failures. Yes, typical politics, but the article was explaining that this has been the strategy for a long long time; it isn't new to this election.

[assmonkey]

Was that article here?

 

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com

 

- a s s m * n k e y

[chucK]

Just as I thought. You have no idea why, but you like the sound of the Bush-Cheney ads.

 

Anyone else out there, with an independently formed opinion, like to please give us an example of a Kerry flip-flop?

 

And Cracked, if you can't see through the "issue" that Fairweather brought up, you're not trying very hard. You probably think Kerry voted against the bill that provided for body armor for our troops because hes against body armor for our troops.

[cracked]

Huh? I think Fairweather's argument is as follows:

 

1. Kerry supports extended unemployment benefits.

2. Kerry caused the bill to extend said benefits to fail by not showing up to vote.

3. As such, Kerry says one thing, and does another.

 

Is that really so hard to understand? What he says and what he does are two different things.

[willstrickland]

One advantage a legislator particularly a Senator is that this is the only way a candidate can have substantial foreign policy experience. HST, JFK I, and LBJ were all Senators. The waffler argument is ridiculous on its face as it can be made about anyone including the present occupant of the oval orifice.

 

Don't get me wrong Mal, I'm not arguing that the waffler argument is accurate, only that it's easy to make against ANY legislator on either side of the aisle. Substanital foreign policy experience can come from plenty of places beyond the legislature though, State Dept/ambassadorship, NSC, NSA, CIA....Bush 41 was in the House of Rep (lost two runs for senate), but got his real FP experience through being Ambassador the UN, and Director of the CIA right?

[Mal_Con]

Of course you are right but, I cannot remember a president who was only in the State dept, NSC, CIA or NSA. Bush I was only elected because he was VP not because he was the director of the CIA right? Most of those positions are political awards for contributors rather than the result of actual qualifications. The really knowledgeable people are the station chiefs and civil service staff rather than the nominal head or ambassador.

 

BTW I agree that legislators more vulnerable to a chare of waffling than a governor as such charges are easy to make and complicated to rebut as they may be based on procedural votes or amendments.

[selkirk]

Limecat Says

"Between Bush and Monkey, the monkey has my vote any day of the week, and twice on sundays!"

 

Edited May 13, 2004 by selkirk

[marylou]

You can only vote twice on Sundays in Florida and Texas.

 

Oh yeah, and Illinois.

[selkirk]

Good point. The next question is can we get a monkey on the ballot in those states, and if so, who would said monkey's running mate be?

[chucK]

Huh? I think Fairweather's argument is as follows:

 

1. Kerry supports extended unemployment benefits.

2. Kerry caused the bill to extend said benefits to fail by not showing up to vote.

3. As such, Kerry says one thing, and does another.

 

Is that really so hard to understand? What he says and what he does are two different things.

 

Thank you for responding! Now we can discuss this.

 

I think I basically spoke to your example already, but here is the synopsis. Your point #2 is far from proven. I posit that if Kerry were to have shown up, that one of those in Will's list would have voted the other way, to keep the benefits tanked. You could argue that Kerry should fly all around the country to try to counter every Repub dirty trick, but I think that might be a little impractical. Kerry here is banking on the intelligence of the voters to see through this transparent ploy.

 

Also, is that all you got? No more examples of Kerry flip-waffling? Seems like you've been making that claim for longer than a day.

 

Or are you like those lying politicians, who figure that if you just say something enough it will eventually be accepted truth?

[RobBob]

The problem:

[Peter_Puget]

He absolutely has been flip flopping on outsourcing. ALso read my posts about his outright lies concerning making Jimmy Carter a mideast envoy. On thing he is consitant on is blaming others! Most notably his speech writers!

 

 

Edited May 13, 2004 by Peter_Puget

[selkirk]

Shouldn't Martlett, and Gotterdamerung be weighing in on this? Did they finally get offended?

[Skeezix]

I agree that Bush is lacking oratory skills, but that doesn't make him stupid

 

I think he's swimming in the intellectual shallow end. What better measure of intellect than what comes out when one opens one's mouth? Bush is a simpleton. I'm too superstitious to predict a Kerry win, but that's my fondest political wish. Is Dumsfeld's resignation my second choice? You bet it is!