chirp Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Does anyone here have proper and reliable experience with glue in bolts? Im thinking of giving some a try and wasnt sure really where to start regarding the actual epoxy/glue mixtures, installation and brands. I have used PC-7 making urban bouldering/climbing routes, but before I jump into glue in bolts I would love some feedback. I currently use rawl/powers 5 piece bolts and fixe hardware and am working in a soft rock environment. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountrydog Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 check out petzels site. i think theres info on the ASCA site regarding glue-ins too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted May 3, 2004 Author Share Posted May 3, 2004 Hey BCD! I went to ASCA, Petzl and the Fixe site. Alot of "info" but nothing really specific, just a bunch of vague info and selection of resins, epoxys and such. Probably overkill but its just an option I really havent looked at because it sounds so labor intensive, but alas quality is the ultimate goal. I figured that someone here at CC might have some experience with em. Thanks for yer tips tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Hey Chirp... Go with the Hilti stuff...cheap and hella strong, sets in one hour and is chemically impervious...if you have a fax number and send you some of their catalogue cut sheets...PM me if you want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Let me preface this by saying that I don't have any experience with glue-ins. However, I did attend a bolt replacement clinic where they recommended against glue-ins. Their reasoning was that if water gets into the bolt hole, it has a much more difficult time finding its way out past the glue... I have to admit, I didn't ask any questions about this issue at the time because I was more interested in five piece bolts. But it might warrant some research before committing to glue-ins on your project. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Let me preface this by saying that I don't have any experience with glue-ins. However I don't like glue ins for hard rock but for soft rock with the proper system they can be hella strong. I am totally more experienced than Jason because I have placed ONE!!! It seems like if you use enough glue it doesnt matter if water can get into the hole or not because the bolt is completely encapsulated in glue so the water cannot penetrate the glue to rust the bolt.... at least as i understand it if there are air pockets in there with your glue and bolt in the hole you have a way bigger problem than rust namely your bolt is weakly adhered and could fail anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Certain types of rock are not completely waterproof. Both sandstone and limestone come to mind immediately. Water may percolate through this type of rock. This may be what the people who presented the workshop were concerned about. Once again, I think it is well worth researching beyond the scope of the people who contribute to this board. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 even if water percolates thru the rock, if the bolt is completel;y encased in glue it shouldn't matter. in NZ (where I placed my one glue in, beautiful Mount Horrible) they said you should use enough glue that it actually not only fills the hole around the bolt, but actually the glue should also penetrate and permeate the adjacent permeable rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 The real test of bolts has been in Thailand, where the rock is so acidic the seepage eats all but stainless steel bolts. I believe they have had great luck with the Hilti glue-ins, as RUMR said, they are cheap and impermeable. With any glue-in, the holes have to be way cleaner than regular expansion bolts, for the very reason you mention: dust disallows penetration of glue into surrounding rock, compromising holding power. Because of the importance of permeation, glue-ins should only be used in softer rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 there used to be a route at skaha with glue in ring bolts and during the 1994 forest fire the glue melted and the bolts fell out of the holes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Their reasoning was that if water gets into the bolt hole, it has a much more difficult time finding its way out past the glue... Hilti has a new product, RE 500, which works in water-filled holes and has a higher strength than standard HY-150. The unfortunate drawback is that the set/cure time is longer than HY-150: 6 hrs initial cure time, vs. 1 hour initial cure time for HY-150 (times are for 68-deg F). Data taken from the Hilti catalog. Greg_W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 (edited) Jason - Could you be thinking of the using epoxy to seal a non-glue in anchor? I have heard the arguement you are raising relative to that practice but not to glue in anchors. Pp Edited May 4, 2004 by Peter_Puget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 The real test of bolts has been in Thailand, where the rock is so acidic the seepage eats all but stainless steel bolts. I believe they have had great luck with the Hilti glue-ins, as RUMR said, they are cheap and impermeable. With any glue-in, the holes have to be way cleaner than regular expansion bolts, for the very reason you mention: dust disallows penetration of glue into surrounding rock, compromising holding power. Because of the importance of permeation, glue-ins should only be used in softer rock. Do you mean this place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Nice tufas! Errr...I mean, on the rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 there is a tufa route in Britain called "Tufa King Hard" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 On Physical Grafitti, Calico Basin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Hey, Mr. Gluebolts question guy - You might try heading over to http://www.smithrock.com and finding Ryan Lawson's e-mail address, or maybe just posting the question over there. If not Lawson, there's a couple other folks on that board who have put up routes and probably have glue-in experience. So where's this new secret sport crag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Why are there biners clipped into biners? It's a strange setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Why are there biners clipped into biners? It's a strange setup. Would you shut up already? The pic is for the glue-ins, you don't have to turn every picture into an analysis of anchor set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 The epitome of three-year-old-itis: "Why, why, why?" Uncle Greg, why does it bother you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Why are there biners clipped into biners? It's a strange setup. Would you shut up already? The pic is for the glue-ins, you don't have to turn every picture into an analysis of anchor set up. You done got dissed, 'birdseat! And anyway, sometimes if there's not enough room in the hangers (like those small-diameter-opening glue-ins that are fairly common at Red Rox, as pictured), it's easier to clip other draws or your clip-in runners or whatever to the biners you already got in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Why are there biners clipped into biners? It's a strange setup. Would you shut up already? The pic is for the glue-ins, you don't have to turn every picture into an analysis of anchor set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 ^^^^ The fuck is this "snugtop" thingus s'posed to mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Certain types of rock are not completely waterproof. Both sandstone and limestone come to mind immediately. Water may percolate through this type of rock. This may be what the people who presented the workshop were concerned about. Once again, I think it is well worth researching beyond the scope of the people who contribute to this board. Jason Jason, the glue is impervious to water and rod stock is the placer's choice...if corrosion is an issue, one can place SS or titanium rods... Glue in bolts are the STANDARD on european limestone, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 The epitome of three-year-old-itis: "Why, why, why?" Uncle Greg, why does it bother you? Problem is, I can't get him to play the "statue game" over the internet. "Okay, little Brian, let's play the statue game. Stand like a statue for as long as you can. The last one to move, wins. Ready? GO!" <Uncle Greg wanders into the kitchen, chuckling, and grabs another beer.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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