Halliburton pillaging the Iraq effort

[To_The_Top]

Long writeup here: web page

[catbirdseat]

Like no one saw it coming when the VP's company gets a no bid contract while he still has financial interest in the company.

[tele_nut]

There were no other contractors that had even half the resources of KBR/Halliburton or could mobilize in the time it took KBR to move out and get downrange.

 

Those folks are doing a great job there. So unless you've been there and seen their efforts first hand, seen some of the shit jobs those folks are doing, I suggest you STFU.

[catbirdseat]

Is it true or not true that Halliburton has not been paying its subcontractors on time?

[tele_nut]

I'm not sure actually.

 

Most of the contractors I know that work for KBR are very happy. They don't exactly exist in the same spheres that I do, but since they run virtually everything logistical in nature it is hard to avoid their presence.

 

I would have to assume that if some of them are not being paid then I would speculate that they might be Iraqi national subcontractors. Plus with the way that some contracts are paid out by the government it is sometimes simply a timing issue and their may have been a lag period.

[Trundle]

I'm not sure actually... I would have to assume

 

I love this stuff... Classic CC.com debate.

[catbirdseat]

You have no idea how classic.

[E-rock]

There were no other contractors that had even half the resources of KBR/Halliburton or could mobilize in the time it took KBR to move out and get downrange.

 

If this is the case, why wasn't there a bidding process to convince the American taxpayers that indeed Halliburton was the only logical choice for the job?

[Bug]

There were no other contractors that had even half the resources of KBR/Halliburton or could mobilize in the time it took KBR to move out and get downrange.

 

Those folks are doing a great job there. So unless you've been there and seen their efforts first hand, seen some of the shit jobs those folks are doing, I suggest you STFU.

Are you saying conflict of interest should no longer be considered? Should it now be OK for a polotician to use his office to direct government contracts solely to his own company or one that he has a huge interest in?

[Jim]

The defense department has been moving in this direction for some time, hiring civilian contractors to supply items that the armed forces used to do themselves - a lot of logistical items - moving things around, setting up camps and related facilites. The idea was to get the free market competition going and get contractors to do the job more efficiently and cheaper.

 

Well anyone who has worked on a contractor basis knows what a no-bid contract, especially one for this type of money, leads to. Certainly it is a tough job and we should be paying a fair price, but it's the usual pigs at the tough here.

[tele_nut]

Let me clarify.

 

My observations are first hand observations, not some surmised factoid derived from an obscure news reporter who has seen about 1/10th as much of Iraq as I have. I am talking about the HUMAN FACTOR of the people on the ground there that work for KBR.

 

The ground war had a build up phase from a military standpoint and the planning for the war was made years and years before Bush and CO even hit the polls. The plans to carry certain contractors was probably a result of loyalty and industry achievement over the course of many years. It's called a relationship. You wouldn't expect someone to create an operating system for you from scratch when you need one NOW and someone already has the instruments in place now would you? That's just seems senseless to me. The DOD went with what they had. KBR and others were ready and willing to go.

 

If you're so concerned I can probably help get you a job over there for what you feel is a fair wage. Then you can put your life on the line and feel better about what you think the government should be paying someone to conduct support ops in a combat zone. In a guerrilla war there are no front lines and no secure rear areas. Climbing mountains is a pretty safe enterprise compared to driving a fuel truck up and down MSR Tampa every day.

[Kelamuku]

Forgive me if I'm out of line in commenting here as I'm new to this site.

 

I, however felt strongly enough about the "first hand" observations on "Iraq" to entice a reply.

 

Allow me to disagree with heir "_nut".

 

First point of challange is the "build up phase from a military standpoint and the planning for the war was made years and years before Bush and CO even hit the polls."

 

Having served numerous years in the military and as a DOD contract negoitator, the "Iraq War" was the sole mission of our current sitting leader.

 

As for the "The plans to carry certain contractors was probably a result of loyalty and industry achievement over the course of many years" that would culminate in a relationship, this is known in DOD circles as an "old boy" network.

 

 

The contractors currently in Iraq today, are their for their OWN benefit. Not the benefit of the Iraqi people or the Americian's who are funding the bill.

 

Regards,

[tele_nut]

YEAH you are out of line. Get back on the short bus ass-monkey. If you want to refer to me as *HEIR* then just lock your heels in place right now and bust out a salute. Otherwise, don't get nasty brother.

 

What were you a PAC clerk in the military? What prestigious contracts did you negotiate? Maybe you should take a class in militarism 101. The war was planned years before the Bush administration came to power and this is a well documented fact. But your point serves nothing to carry the argument for the fact that Halliburton was and is the right company for the job. If you want to apply your weak kneed argument to something than why don't you apply it to the civilian sector as well. Nordstrom's for example. Do you NOT think that there is a good old boys network that exists there? How about Calloway Golf? Marmot? Etc, etc, etc. There is a market for certain good and services and certain companies fit the bill. Shoe fits wear it, that sort of thing.

 

I don't work for Halliburton. I owe them zero loyalty. I have no vested interest in the company whatsoever.

[Kelamuku]

My appoligies if you took the term "heir" as slanderous. In many European countries it is a sign of respect when addressing a unknown for the first time the same as "Sir".

 

If you would like to discuss my military record as well as my accomplishments in the civilian sector we could arange a time to do that in a different forum.

 

Aas ofr being a "monkey-ass" or riding a "short bus" I suggest that you stop projecting you ecperiences on me and stick to facts.

 

Having attended the Naval War college (and I can provide MY degree) I have a better than average understanding of militarism. I was just stating that Halliburton's effort in Iraq has no bearing on who was the most qualified or has a consistant record of industry achievment. It mearly went to the company with the highest government contacts.

 

I do agree with you this occurs in the civilian sector as well. All companies operate with varring degrees of nepitisim, favoritism, and "old-boy" mentalities. The major difference is that they aren't supplying the products required by those selfless few who volunteer to serve in the Armed FOrces. Having lost serveral frends and investgated hunderdes of accidents that were the direct result of sub-standard equipment from well connected contractors over my military career I was just offering another perspecitve on this topic.

 

Aloha until???

[tele_nut]

There have been numerous occasions on this site that I have been slandered and defamed by various entities that disagree with a conservative outlook. This is the PNW AND a climbing website of which the majority of individuals are decidedly leftist. Often I have been referred to as fascist when there was a time and a place where that was simply referred to as patriotic. Hence, I bristle when I hear references to Germanic imperialism, despite my being German to boot. No offense taken. Sorry to make your into to the board a rough one.

 

Much better. I prefer to know that the person I am talking with over the internet is not a tree hugger who's biggest military experience was watching Platoon on cable.

 

I serve on the close protection detail for Ambassador Paul Bremer in Iraq. I only returned to the states 5 days ago. I have been in Iraq since July and prior to that I served in the military in close quarter ground combat units. My education is Information Technology and Criminal Justice. So now we have an understanding on the board.

 

If KBR employees or company officers are guilty of using their influence to overvaluate contracts or charge for services not rendered than they should face charges. I have no problem with that. There is a tendency in situations such as a war, where confusion can reign for short periods to take advantage of that chaos. If there were instances of this occurring then punish the guilty and not the whole company. My point was simply that I see these folks driving shit trucks, water trucks, fuel trucks, serving chow, cleaning floors and bathrooms, building barriers, erecting temporary housing, fixing electrical problems, and a myriad of other small day to day chores that occur and I empathize with them having to make a living in a combat site. Not with the crooked executive that uses power and influence to rip off honest Americans who pay taxes and have sons and daughters serving in the region.

 

I am at a loss to understand who was more capable of placing that amount of logistics on the ground in Iraq? DynCorp? They couldn't punch their way out of a paper sack. CSA? Retarded. Bechtel? They already soaked up all the construction contracts. Washington Group? Corps of Engineers? I have been in Kuwait, Jordan, Qatar, Iraq, Kurdistan and Afghanistan and I am not aware of who might have been better suited than KBR. Clue ME in.

[E-rock]

Kelamuku, don't apologize to that asshole. Let hime fuckin' have it.

 

P.S. Tele_nut, your Nordstrom/Marmot analogy fails to sway my perspective. Last I heard they were competitive companies in a free market economy, and I don't believe I own a sigle piece of Marmot equipment, yet I'm an avid back-country skier and rock-climber.

[tele_nut]

E-Rock why don't YOU let me have it. I am right here waiting. North Bend to be exact.

[E-rock]

E-Rock why don't YOU let me have it. I am right here waiting. North Bend to be exact.

 

Whatever tough guy. Congrats on your return from Iraq, but get a grip, dude. Dishing, but not taking it, isn't consistently "conservative", now is it?

[tele_nut]

All companies contracting to the government are also free to make bids and give it their best shot. I did not participate in the contracting process for these huge multi billion contracts. My point was good old boy networks exist all over, not just in companies like KBR.

 

I'm dishing it back at you. I understand it is within the context of these boards and not a personal attack. It is the internet. Thrash away and enjoy.

[cj001f]

All companies contracting to the government are also free to make bids and give it their best shot.

 

All companies are free to bid yes, but KBR was awarded 2 contracts up to $15.6 billion in a sole source contract (i.e. no competitive bidding process) If the militaries asking for sole source at that contract value, they aren't going to source it elsewhere....much less how someone would go about getting ahold of the information required to put together a competent bid.

 

There may not be an existing organization that would be able to handle the logistics, but given the money, someone could put one together real quick (it happens all the time in the weapons side of the defense business)

[tele_nut]

I would bet that there were clauses to let either one of the principals out of the contracts. If there is enough heat turned up then their may eventually be a bidding process. I have to say from experience that the cheapest bidders often end up providing very shoddy service and we end up losing in the end. KBR has now been at it for quite a while, and have some good systems in place. It would be harmful to have to put all new people on the ground. And I have to tell you that finding good people to go to these types of places to do this type of work is not easy. Even with high salaries the burnout rate is tremendous.

 

If there is graft on KBR's part then that should be immediately investigated and the offenders punished on a par with someone committing treason.

 

My thought is that we should stick with what we've got at this point and get this thing over and done with. We need to move on from this experience quickly, even though I fully understand that we will probably be in Iraq for the next 20 years and in great strength for at least the next 5.

 

What I think is important is that good can come from this situation if we keep sticking to the high ground and not let ourselves get too embroiled in class and party segregation.

[Kelamuku]

tele_nut

 

First off, allow me to say “Welcome-Home”. I am glad that you returned safely from Iraq.

 

No offence taken I have developed thick skin over the course of my life.

 

Second, allow me to clarify any miss representations I might have alluded to. I am not from the PNW nor do I reside there currently. I stumbled across this site while doing climbing research and found the banter both humorous and intelligent.

 

It appears that we have trampled through some of the same mud so to speak as I have had the pleasure of serving all over the middle east/gulf region as well as the south pacific, and Indian Ocean territory.

 

While I agree with you that KBR is well entrenched in the current effort and removing them at this point could prove disastrous, it is the process of how they came to be there I have issue with. Could some other organization have done a better job? I/we will never know as no one was given the opportunity to “bid” on this contract. This is the “bone of contention that I believe many people have. The granting of government contracts without a competitive bidding process.

 

Your final thought seems to bring up what might be another “thread” I believe is the term?

The result of America’s “Lone Gun” approach to Iraq seems to have committed the taxpayers and service people of this country to a long-term obligation. Had our current leadership heeded the advice or recommendation of the UN the “cost” of liberating Iraq might have been shared by several other world organizations.

 

The current role that our President has cast us in also increases the likely hood that we will face Haiti and Libya alone as well.

 

I look forward to your rebuttal and welcome any thoughts you have on these issues.

 

Regards and Aloha,

[Billygoat]

Didn't Haliburton get in trouble for selling $14 sheets of plywood for $85 on one of their Government contracts? And then just recently got in trouoble for overcharging (by 50% to 100%) for gas in, of all places, Iraq? Same guys right?!

 

I am a contractor and I am entitled to Profit and Overhead on materials but more like 18% not 607%

 

The guys doing the work over there are not sharing in that 607% mark up. Well maybe the top supervisors but not the guys driving the trucks.

 

This whole Iraq thing is total bullshit. Prove it to me otherwise...