Climbing Rack

[salbrecher]

I'm looking to buy a basic climbing rack and was wondering if there is sort of a standard set of pro and sizes that I should buy first? I will be climbing in the Squamish area. I don't want to spend to much money so I just want to buy a basic set of pro (cams, nuts). Any help would be appreciated.

[glen]

there are a lot of answers to this question. One approach that seems to work well is to climb with people with full racks, figure out what works for you, and spend wisely from there.

 

In the absense of partners with full racks, or partners with climing gear for that matter, I would recommend the following:

 

A set of nuts. Double the midrange if you can.

A set of BD camalots 1,2,3, skip the smallest stuff. If you can, double up on the 1 and 2.

for smaller sizes I prefer wired bliss and aliens.

 

BD are preferred because they have about the best size range per cam. This makes them quite versatile. So, while you will be able to afford fewer cams overall, each individual cam can be used in a broader array of placements.

 

You are likely to see lots of criticism of this, but it's a good starting point. Remember to shy away from the epicly long pitches when you have a small rack, as you can end up painfully short of gear in unfortunate circumstances in a hurry.

 

Gear is expensive, but a good starter rack is still cheaper than a ride in an ambulance.

 

have fun out there!

[glen]

cheap nuts:

http://gear.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=31370

 

If you don't mind euro brands, remember to check out barrabes.com. Cheap!

[Jason_Martin]

When I was a young climber I was a poor college student. In a way this helped me develop the best rack possible. Let me explain.

 

I started with the gear I needed the most. I started with a set of stoppers and a set of hexes. I climbed with this small rack for a long time (Two Years) before I slowly began to add cams to the rack. As a result I really understood how to use this basic equipment well.

 

The other thing was that I had the opportunity to climb with a number of people with a number of different types of racks. In the end I bought the cams I liked the most, instead of those that were cheapest when I first started leading.

 

I really believe that one should spend time climbing with different gear before shelling out tons of money for gear that they don't like. Think about it more as an investment than a need to get gear right this second.

 

Jason

[fern]

For my own amusement I recently made a list of what I consider a complete rack and added up the MEC prices (i.e. Canadian $$, pretax).

 

For a rack that includes at least 2 pieces for every size from thin fingers to small fists, all respected Western Bloc brands I got,

 

Total: spare carabiners + quickdraws:$210

Nuts+Cams+Hexes+Tricams: $453.60 for the deluxe (22 pieces), $330.30 (17 pieces) for the streamlined.

 

How much money is too much?

[fern]

*hiccup*

 

[ 05-14-2002, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: fern ]

[salbrecher]

Anybody have any comments on the wild country forged friends?

[Matt_Anderson]

Since youu're talking about squamish, I assume you're talking about rock climbing, not alpine.

 

Heres the rack that gets me up 90% of the climbs I get on:

Twelve draws (6 are single length runners tripled down, six are shorter slings/draws for easy clipping)

A full run of normal nuts, from about as big as my pinky (i've got a fat pinky) to the largest that Black Diamond makes. I also carry a double set of the mid sized nuts.

A double run of cams from the blue alien size to the size of a # 3 camalot (I rack them singly, which is expensive, but very convenient when you have a harness with six loops.)

Double set of micro nuts ( Black diamond swedges or copper/steels)

 

Because this is expensive, I built this rack by buying the most used/cheapest things first and then more as the money came along.

 

1)start with slings/draws. They are all you need for sport pitches and also necessary for trad. I rarely find that I need more than 12 on even a long trad pitch. Although I often need more for long sport pitches, such long pitches are uncommon at lower grades and who cares, anyway, it's generally easy to borrow a draw or two when you're just sport climbing.

Re: cost management: The cheapest way to go is to get only ovals/D's. They suck for clipping. If you can afford bent/wiregates on one end, it raises the price, but sure is nice. I started out with almost all D's and ovals, with only a few bent gates. I kept the ones with bent gates for the clips that I thought would be hard for me and used the less convenient ones for easy clips. You can also cut corners by tying your own slings.

 

2) Then get nuts - a complete set from as small as you are comfortable falling on up to the largest ones your manufacturer of choice makes. I would also get doubles from aproximately 1/3 to 1/2 inch upwards.

re: cost management. Until you can afford scads of cams, nuts allow you to climb most cracks up to an inch 1 1/2 inches. Nowadays, I've got doubles and triples in the smaller sized cams. so I only bring a single rack of nuts with doubles in the micro sizes and mid.

 

3) Then get the larger size cams, a run from about 1 1/4 inch up to 3 inches (about a size three camalot) will open up a bunch of cracks. I would then double up that size. While nuts can often substitute for small cams, they almost never do for the large cams. I love camalots, but if price is a factor, you should just go for cheap cams, i.e. trango, etc. Camalots cost @ $60.00 a piece, so for $300, you get five placements. Some cams these days are selling for the low $30s. For the same $300, you could get 9 pieces. There are a bunch of climbs a beginning leader can get up with 9 placements, but not 5.

 

At this point, you have enough to get up a whole lot of climbs for a reasonable price. Unfortunately, the lack of small cams makes hard climbing on thin cracks, problematic, to say the least.

 

4) Then a single rack of of your small cams of choice. More than other pieces of equipment, it seems that small cams have the greatest variance in usability. Aliens fit better than almost anything else, metolius last forever. If you're gonna pay extra, this is a good place o do it.

 

5) Micro nuts, like Black Diamond Swedges. These things are ultra strong and I love them. At this point, you're not talking about a strictly standard rack. They do, however open up many other possibilities.

 

6) A second set of small cams.

 

I bought hexes and never use them unless I'm climbing with someone real slow. In that case, I hang three of them on one of the cams I placed low on the route. From there on, you can hear cow bells whenever your climber moves. As such, you can yell at him when he's just sitting around.

 

If you anticipte trying to climb routes of sustained difficulty with out no hands clipping stances, Hexes suck. They are, however, cheap. Whoopee. So is rat poison, you don't see me buying much of that either.

 

Matt

 

P.S. Like everybody else says, the quality of your decisions will improve dramatically the more that you can afford to hold off on buying a rack and tinker with other people's gear. Of course, the lack of independnce sucks in the mean time.

 

P.P.S. Finally, work your ass off to find ways to get pro deals. Find friends who can get them. Work in a gear shop and quit as soon as you buy gear. 50% discounts make even camalots affordable.

 

[ 05-14-2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Matt Anderson ]

[Lambone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by salbrecher:

Anybody have any comments on the wild country forged friends?

---

Really cheap, and lightweight. Ridged is a drawback, but can be delt with. they have worked well since way back when!

[chucK]

Here's what to get, in this order:

 

1. yellow CCH alien

2. #7 Wild Country stopper

3. #1 Camalot

4. #4 HB brass offset

[Paul_detrick]

Here I go again, your point on taking lighter weight cams instead of the camalots, if you take 6 cams that work,(lots of range)verse 10 cams that maybe 6 will work (small range)works out to be the same. Buy camalots once you set a few cams you will know these babys are bomber,and the weight will make you stonger.

[Matt_Anderson]

I don't have the specs, but the difference in range for camalots vs. other cams is about 10%. Considering the general irregularities of most cracks, the difference just isn't that significant.

 

Granted, its nice to have the extra range when you are pumped and don't have the time to take a lot of care in choosing which cam is the correct one. But all it takes is a bit of forethought to be able to make sure that you don't up your only usable cams early on the route.

[Attitude]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul detrick:

Here I go again, your point on taking lighter weight cams instead of the camalots, if you take 6 cams that work,(lots of range)verse 10 cams that maybe 6 will work (small range)works out to be the same. Buy camalots once you set a few cams you will know these babys are bomber,and the weight will make you stonger.

---

The intelligent climber would just leave the 4 cams that don't work on the ground.

[Retrosaurus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Attitude:

The intelligent climber would just leave the 4 cams that don't work on the ground.

---

Attitude must climb only one pitch routes. Or he is clairivoyant.

Hmmm, Sport climber?/Clairivoyant?

[willstrickland]

Matt A and Jason's experience basically mirrors my own. I would add:

 

Investigate the euro web-sites such as Barrabes, sportextreme, and telemarkpyrenees. Generally much cheaper than US prices for the same gear.

 

Check your local gear shops and climbing gyms for people selling off their rack...this works especially well in suburban yuppified areas.

 

Do you one one "main" climbing partner? Build one rack between the two of you.

 

Try to find deals on "sets" of nuts or cams. My first full set of cams came from me walking into a shop in Provo, UT and negotiating the price on a set of camalots to get it down to something I could afford. I've bought sets of BD stoppers for $65, and sets of DMM walnuts for $61.

 

Got a friend that works for an outfitter, outdoor program, manufacturer, etc? Get them to hook you up with a pro-deal.

 

Re: rigid friends. I've still got some from the 80's on my rack and I lived in the southeast for a long time where half the placements are in horizontals. They are bomber, but not such a good choice in smaller sizes due to levering and whatnot. In the large sizes they tend to be better because the stem generally doesn't interfere with the placement in a large crack. I keep the few I have left slung through the hole nearest the cam lobes...a "tied off" placement of sorts that eliminates the chance of levering the stem over an edge.

 

You should really try to lead with some friends' racks to see which particular brands work best for you. You won't remember the $8 difference per cam when you're gripped on the 20th pitch trying to whip off the right size and place it before you pump out.

[Attitude]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Retrosaurus:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Attitude:

The intelligent climber would just leave the 4 cams that don't work on the ground.

---

Attitude must climb only one pitch routes. Or he is clairivoyant.

Hmmm, Sport climber?/Clairivoyant?

---

Well, duh, you just attach your mirror to your stick clip and inspect the route beforehand. The trendy climber, OTOH, will attach a web cam instead and preview the route over his cell phone.

 

Really, I'm just trying to counter the previous argument. What does the climber with six camelots do when he needs the 7th on a pitch? He either makes due with something else, keeps climbing, or backs off.

 

To go back to the original question, I've met several beginning leaders with only stoppers and hexes. These with runners and biners (and John Long's Climbing Anchors book) will get one up many routes.

 

I do highly recommend Smileys. That grinning mug on a bright color is rather comforting when hanging by fingernails with sewing machine legs. Too bad that has been replaced by a stupid biner-ABC logo.

 

 

[ 05-15-2002, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Attitude ]

[chucK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt Anderson:

But all it takes is a bit of forethought to be able to make sure that you don't up your only usable cams early on the route.

---

So what exact bit of forethought do you use to know which placements will be available to you later on a pitch? Do you rap preview every pitch you do?

[willstrickland]

quote:

---

Originally posted by chucK:

[so what exact bit of forethought do you use to know which placements will be available to you later on a pitch?

---

1. Look up...duh

2. If you've just placed your 2nd and last blue TCU, consider walking it ahead of you in the crack until you can place something else, cleaning it and having it higher on the pitch in case you need it. I do this semi-often.

3. My concern is usually more about having the right gear left to construct an anchor than about having the right pieces left for the pitch...you can always run it out a bit to a different sized placement.

[chucK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by willstrickland:

quote:

---

Originally posted by chucK:

[so what exact bit of forethought do you use to know which placements will be available to you later on a pitch?

---

1. Look up...duh

2. If you've just placed your 2nd and last blue TCU, consider walking it ahead of you in the crack until you can place something else, cleaning it and having it higher on the pitch in case you need it. I do this semi-often.

3. My concern is usually more about having the right gear left to construct an anchor than about having the right pieces left for the pitch...you can always run it out a bit to a different sized placement.

---

#1: Do you climb in the real world where sometimes you cannot see all the way up the pitch?

 

#2: Do you always make sure you walk at least one of every size up with you until you can see the anchors?

 

#3: ??? This is exactly what I was saying but you just call it an anchor instead of a placement. Why don't you just 1. Look up at the belay spot duh? Or 2 just walk every piece up with you?

 

[willstrickland]

quote:

---

Originally posted by chucK:

#1: Do you climb in the real world where sometimes you cannot see all the way up the pitch?

 

#2: Do you always make sure you walk at least one of every size up with you until you can see the anchors?

 

#3: ??? This is exactly what I was saying but you just call it an anchor instead of a placement. Why don't you just 1. Look up at the belay spot duh? Or 2 just walk every piece up with you?

 

[/QB]

---

1. Look man, you're not going to take all the uncertainty out of the climbing, otherwise what's the point? You look up and see as much as you can and try to plan accordingly.

 

2. No, I don't. I try to concentrate more on making the moves and getting from stance to stance or moving quickly enought to not pump out. Many people overprotect and that is why they run out of gear, not because they didn't bring enough.

 

3. It's nowhere near the same thing. At some point, my ass and my partner's ass are both replying on the anchor to keep us alive. Typically if I run out of the right gear, I can run it out to the anchors, or run it out to another placement of a different size. Maybe there's the chance of a death-fall from the runout, but not likely. Anchor fails, on a hanging belay, you die..period. If you end up at the end of the pitch, out of rope, and don't have enough gear...your phu-kayed...hope your downclimbing skills are good or you can hang out at that spot long enough to pull up more gear on the tag line.

[freeclimb9]

regarding hexes: I got some metolius curved hexes to cover large sized cracks (loose fingers to fist. #s 6, 7, 8, and 9) and have found them easier to place than old school hexes. They nicely supplement the few camalots on an alpine rack (camalots .5, .75, 1, and 2) which is completed with a set of BD stoppers, a few RockNrollers (akin to aliens in use), fifteen shoulder slings and 20-25 Quicksilver carabiners. This rack has served well on several Wind River climbs. Your own climbing destinations and preferences will determine what rack you'll want to carry.

BTW, ask three climbers about what rack to carry and you'll get four different answers.

[chucK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by willstrickland:

1. Look man, you're not going to take all the uncertainty out of the climbing, otherwise what's the point? You look up and see as much as you can and try to plan accordingly.

 

2. No, I don't. I try to concentrate more on making the moves and getting from stance to stance or moving quickly enought to not pump out. Many people overprotect and that is why they run out of gear, not because they didn't bring enough.

 

3. It's nowhere near the same thing. At some point, my ass and my partner's ass are both replying on the anchor to keep us alive. Typically if I run out of the right gear, I can run it out to the anchors, or run it out to another placement of a different size. Maybe there's the chance of a death-fall from the runout, but not likely. Anchor fails, on a hanging belay, you die..period. If you end up at the end of the pitch, out of rope, and don't have enough gear...your phu-kayed...hope your downclimbing skills are good or you can hang out at that spot long enough to pull up more gear on the tag line.

---

All good points Will.

 

You don't always know exactly what protection opportunities are going to be available, higher up on a pitch.

 

Dicking around trying to use suboptimal pieces to save others and walking up cams can cause you to pump out.

 

The belay at the top of a pitch is part of the pitch as far as protection is concerned. As you point out so well, even more important than midpitch.

 

I think we are in agreement? Why are we arguing?

[b-rock]

Ok, newbie question. 'Walking up cams' - Does this mean setting and clipping into a cam, climbing past it, reaching down to pull it, then set it again above you? Thanks y'all.

[Lambone]

Yeah, but you don't even have to climb above it. Just like being on top rope.

[ScottP]

'Walking up cams': You just scoot them along with you as you go. Like a dog with worms, but not.