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scot'teryx

[TR] Mt St Helens- Worm Flows 2/28/2004

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Climb: Mt St Helens-Worm Flows

 

Date of Climb: 2/28/2004

 

Trip Report:

Left Everett @ 330am and arrived at TH @ 8am. Snowmobilers from hell all over the place. Skier are now not allowed to park in the upper lot, they have to park down below, even if you have a sno-park pass (which you can buy online now at the Gifford Pichot Website). Pea Soup conditions up to about 6K, and then the skies opened up. We moved slow since I was babysitting a couple of newbies to Randonee which slowed us down. Made it to 7K at 3pm (turnaround). Snow turned to crust with the high winds, but once we got down to around 6500 feet the snow was perfect, but then we ran into the pea soup again and had a difficult time maing it down to the trees. Back out to car at 430pm. Back at home @ 1030pm. I do not recommed the 9 hour drive in one day

 

Gear Notes:

Basic Backcountry

 

Approach Notes:

Snow from parking lot, roads plowed to TH

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Snowmobilers from hell all over the place. Skier are now not allowed to park in the upper lot, they have to park down below, even if you have a sno-park pass

WTF? It's a 'bile only parking lot? madgo_ron.gif

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I am not sure what it was all about.

I parked on the side near the cabin and some snowmobilers told me I had to move because they had friends coming with more snowmobiles. I told them I would not move because I purchased a snow park pass like evryone else. He said "suit yourself". Then a friend told me that he overheard that some snowmobilers vandalize skier cars if they park in the upper parking lot. Then a forest ranger came by and told me I had to move. I told him that I always parked there every year, and he said it has always been the rules.

 

Isn't that upper lot the easiest access to the swift ski trail? Why would they make the skiers park further away than the people with the motorized vehicles?

 

Now I am curious what my ticket would be if I had not moved?

Ticket for parking in a lot that I paid a permit for?

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Did you see anyone else skiing up there?

If you didn't have the rand/tele gear but wante dto slog up and just bring alpine gear for the ski down, would showshoes have been a good idea?

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There were about 12 skiers, and about 8 snowboarders that I saw yesterday. We also saw some beginner telemarkers that made a poor decision in making this their first backcountry trip (meaning the snow conditions were survival skiing at the bottom for us, can't imagine what it was like for them) But it looked like they were having some fun....

 

Snowshoes would have worked, but that is a heavy pack to bring up. Either buy some alpine trekkers, or rent a set for $25 from cascade crags or marmot or whomever. Once you go AT, you never look back (also meaning you never use your snowshoes again)

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I'd park there anywhere and bring it up with the judge if you get ticketed. If you bought a snow-park pass you paid to park there, no matter how you plan to get up the hill. First come, first serve.

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We were probably the beginning telemark skiers. Did you guys pass us as we were resting near the "permit required above this point" sign in the soup?

 

Yeah, that is usually what we do: "Lets try telemark skiing"

"okay, I think St. Helens would be fun" rolleyes.gif

 

Anyway going up was good. We left at 8:00 and got to the summit with everyone else at a little after 1:00. That was one long half day (the going down half). The snow was over pole length deep, so getting back up after a fall was really tiring.

 

We did have a great time figuring out that we either need lessons or to lock our heels. smirk.gif

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While I'm not sure that it is a rule that only snowmobiler's can park in the upper lot, I don't really have a problem with it.

 

Right now, a vehicle with a trailer can't park in the lower lot. That leaves it open for climbers, skiers, and hikers. Say you are climbing St. Helens. What is it, 11 mile round trip and 5300 feet elevation change both ways? The distance from the lower lot to the trailhead is another 150 yds. and 50 feet in elevation cry.gif.

 

The alternative may be that if single cars take most of the upper lot, they may allow trailers in the lower one. Right now we have an almost empty lot all to ourselves.

 

I will agree that it would make have made more sense to have built a larger lot below for all of the trailers and that the lower lot is probably to narrow for trailers to turn around easily.

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Snowmobilers from hell all over the place. Skier are now not allowed to park in the upper lot, they have to park down below, even if you have a sno-park pass

 

A sno-park lot is a sno-park lot. If you have a sno-park permit you can use it, so the ticket would not be for no permit. The forest service must have another designation for that lot specific to that area. Call them and tell them to get bent.

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I think the arguement is that the upper lot lets the big trailers pull all the way around the circle and not have to back up. It also gives them more room for all their toys. But if you think the rangers are any more excited about this than us, not so. We had a nice guy bitching, safely down in the skiers' lot, about how much space those idiots can take take up on either side of their superjumbo trailers just to claim their space. So, the lot was full and he had to redirect the sno-mo's off to a lot even further away. He also thanked us for not parking in the upper lot after cirlcing around once to scope the scene. Larry's nice brother-in-law I guess.

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Say you are climbing St. Helens. What is it, 11 mile round trip and 5300 feet elevation change both ways? The distance from the lower lot to the trailhead is another 150 yds. and 50 feet in elevation cry.gif.

 

That's not the point.

I dislike the point that the snowmobilers have prioroty over the hikers in the 1st place. Why should we be segregated?

 

And the whole part about them being able to go around the circle in the P-Lot? They blocked off all of the turnarounds so that the only way out was the way you came, and that meant backing up. And they all did take up 2 spaces on average with their foldout living rooms and expandable satelitte dishes. Such a pathetic sports culture IMO.

 

Would I accept a tow all the way to the summit by a snowmobiler? You answer that one

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I received the same from a snowmobiler who said, "HEY why don't you GO and park in your OWN parking lot!" Unlike you I didn't move. Not that I mind if they have their own parking lot, but the attitude that spewed off this individual pissed me off. That does bother me. I don't have much to back this up, but I've noticed that snowmobilers seem to have a common dislike for skiers/climbers. I did not like the atmosphere in that parking lot and will not be back anytime soon.

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welcome to the fee demo and also the pay more get more attitude. The deforest service could care less.

 

The real complaints should be addressed daily, weekly, regularly, by people capable of making a problem not weaklings in there.

 

 

Bivy in the toilet or bivy good.

 

Later-

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I am going to dig deeper and call the gifford pinchot folks and find out what the real deal is.

 

I did not like the atmosphere in that parking lot and will not be back anytime soon.

what's wrong with carharts and lots of coolers filled with Ham's? I actually did notice people carrying coolers aorund everywhere. Kids, old folk, everyone. Maybe it's a ritualistic thing they do as a culture worldwide?

 

Do other countries or states have their own "Snowmobiler Culture"

 

Have you guys ever seen them up on Pilchuck Road? They actually haul up firewood and Gas Grills to have "outings" on the sides of the road. "Good Times"

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Yeah, that's lame. Post what you find out Scott. I agree that a lot's a lot. I paid for the pass, and I park where I want. If it means one more sno-mo rider can't park, so be it. I got there first and I dont particuarlly care that he cant go pollute shit anyway.

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I asked about this once and I was told that the snowmobilers actually paid to have the upper lot and shelter built. confused.gif

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Mess with the bilers at your own (auto's) risk! Some of them are great folks who just like coolers (but who would slow down when passing you, and might even save your sorry but if you were injured), and some are serious dickheads who are just looking for a reason to vandalize your car while you're off for the day. I for one would gladly walk a few extra feet in order to not be sucking two stroke fumes while getting my pack ready.

 

This seems like a case where being practical makes more sense than being righteous. But hey, maybe bilers aren't the only user group with some participants who are itching for battle...

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Two rigs with trailers had pulled over and let me pass that morning. I drove around the upper lot and could see that it was almost full. It seemed pretty rude to take one of the last spots after they were nice enough to let me pass.

 

If the upper lot has plenty of room, I will always use it. If not I am willing to walk a little farther. Although a couple of years ago we were x-country skiing back down the 83 road from the Lahar and probably one in five snowmobiles would pass us, cut in front and then gun the machine, throwing snow on us. madgo_ron.gifmadgo_ron.gif

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Although a couple of years ago we were x-country skiing back down the 83 road from the Lahar and probably one in five snowmobiles would pass us, cut in front and then gun the machine, throwing snow on us. madgo_ron.gifmadgo_ron.gif

 

I would say 2 out of every 3 snowmobiles I am passed by insists on gunning their engine as they pass, annoying you with their horrid 2-cycle sounds.

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I like the "low-impact" dudes who try to be conscientious by driving their sleds thru the skiers' lot ssssllllllooooowwwwwlllyyyyy. Sure they're slow, but they're just as FN noisy for a lot FN longer! Thanks guys.

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Guy in Polaris one-piece (pissed-off): where did you park?

Me (almost yelling over the din): er, the lower lot, this one seems full.

Guy (steps up to podium): GOOD. Cause these assholes think they can park wherever they please. We built this damn cabin and these guys with their single vehicles are blocking trailer parking. This is our lot.

Me: I see.

 

I'm willing to put up with 'bilers at that lot due to historic precedent, and I have met some nice ones, but this attitude combined with the haze of 2-cycle exhaust for a 1/4 mile in all directions is a little too much.

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Hahahaha...the one piece snowmobile suits are about the gayest thing I have ever seen.

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is the forest service ticketing non-snowmachiners for parking in the upper lot even with a snowpark permit??? is there signage? sure it's only 100 extra yards but it's also a bit of a chafe to start the day. is there now a preferred sno-park permit? thumbs_down.gif

 

i got no prob with satan, uh, i mean snowmachines. sometimes i wish i had one myself for access of the legal sort. coupla weekends ago seems there were plenty of non-biler rigs in the upper parking lot.

we were gearing up to the oh so swingin' sounds of wagon christ, rockband.gif, when out of the behemoth of a motor home next door strolled a virginia slims smoking housewife with four snow white avalanche poodles. we all exchanged 'what ups' and 'howya doins' and went about our merry ways. perhaps we all CAN get along. at least in the parking lot anyway...

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Funny, when I've been there in spring, the lower lot had the 'bile trailers, the upper had skiers. Maybe cc could raise some bucks and have a climber's only lot?

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The best thing somebody could do is leave a car at the upper lot, refuse to move it when the hicks harasss you then somehow film them vandalizing your car. That footage would probably help further the fight against them.

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