>60m ice ropes?

[thelawgoddess]

thinking about getting half ropes for ice climbing ... been talking to some people visiting the area who think the trend is toward 70m ropes nowadays. i noticed that some of them are being sold in 75m lengths. any comments?

[Dru]

buy 2x95m and you will be free from rope envy for years to come

[lummox]

two 60m ropes are good. i think dealing with two f-in 70m ropes for coiling and flaking and the like would suck. i wont even mention the need for a larger rack when climbing 240foot pitches.

[cracked]

Seems like on ice they might be nice. Everyone made the same arguments that Lummox is making when 60s were introduced. With the really skiiny twine you won't be paying much of a price in weight, either. :shrug:

[boatskiclimbsail]

60m doubles twist and tangle enough as it is. I also like to keep my ice leads to less than 5 or 6 screws which works out to be just about 180'. Nobody needs to be clanging around two dozen screws and enough slings to clip the average smith face climb. With doubles you can descend anything you can climb, so the extra length doesn't really help you unless you are doing reeeeeally long routes and trying to make 20 pitches into 17.

 

Hows the ice down there? All our's went away

[lummox]

long ropes are kina nice because you can keep trimming as you kick and whack em with crampons and tools.

[Paul_detrick]

I too agree with Lummox, thats a long way to go. It might be ok on low angle ice, but something steep? Time will tell if they take or not.

[thelawgoddess]

i don't really cherish the thought of carrying (and dealing with) two 70m ropes. my single 70m that i use for rock is work enough, but i can see the advantage of having of a 70m just in case. one guy's "argument" FOR had to do with cutting your rope (after an axe-hit or crampon whoops) and not having it become uselessly short. i guess it also depends where i'm planning to climb and the how the routes are set up there.

 

but anyway, the ice here is great. i've only climbed in ouray so far - in the ice park and up camp bird mine road. i heard ames (near telluride) is done for the season, but people are definitely hitting up longer routes in silverton right now. i hated leaving ouray last night. i plan to get out and do some longer bc routes in a couple of weeks.

[Doctorb]

Will your Range Rover make it through the snow?

[Stephen_Ramsey]

i've only climbed in ouray so far - in the ice park and up camp bird mine road. i heard ames (near telluride) is done for the season, but people are definitely hitting up longer routes in silverton right now.

Lawgoddess,

 

Are you sure that ice climbing in the Ames area is done for the season? I've climbed Ames Falls in late March, so I don't see how people can pronounce it "done for the season" in January. If anything, I hear Silverton ice climbing typically ends early, due to extreme avalanche hazard. But then again, I'm not a local, so what do I know.

Edited January 16, 2004 by Stephen_Ramsey

[Figger_Eight]

I agree. Longer ropes would just cause a bigger cluster%@. Twin 60's are bad enough.

[Cpt.Caveman]

My opinion.

 

I would find them superfluous most of the time.

 

Descents by route or v thread become a *little* faster. Belay options can be better depending on judgement and action...

 

Overall opinon- not really worth it.

 

60 meter is pretty good for me.

[layton]

It's alway nice to be ahead of the game, that's why I LOVE 70m ropes. Ice climbing especially. It'll come in VERY handy on Whorehouse Hoses, I can assure you of that at least.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Ahead of the game?

 

Ahead because you climb slower due to rope drag, heavier gear, or beacause you are smart enough to know where to put belays?

 

Partially kidding.

 

Where are the real advantages to ice climbing between 60 and 70 meters? Are they great? Are they often? Or are some people just good at justifying the length because they bought one?

[layton]

on rock, you need 70m worth of gear, on ice maybe, maybe one extra scew so it seems really good for ice. 60m...70m rope management sucks just the same. It pretty much makes it feasable to TR, or link 35m or under pitches which there are a lot. you got 10m extra. It's really nice to have more leeway as to how far you can climb and where you can put your belays. I own a 70m 9.4 and use friends 70m 9.1's.

I think it greatly improve speed in the alpine rock/ice and the ice, ESPECIALLY routes where there are no obvious belay spots whether the route be very ledgy, or super steep. It comes in handy on those "last" short pitches too cuz you can skip em.

I've climbed on many routes where it's come in very hands. Polar circus is a good example with the 65m curtains near the top.

 

On raps, if there are lots of anchor stations, or on a desccent with no stations, you get less raps w/one rope too.

Edited January 16, 2004 by michael_layton

[Cpt.Caveman]

I can see your points.

 

I think 60 is fine for *me*. I use it in summer for other needs as well.

 

I TR 35m pitches with single lines. I can see your intentions.

 

Of course the major advantage is where one would place a belay and the other is that you can *theoretically* escape faster.

 

I believe at times a 30m, 50m, or 60m can speed my climbing and communications on different routes for rock where I feel more comfortable than on ice. I can elaborate but whatever.

 

Just some banter for ya.

 

I don't frown on anybody using one. Just voicing ideas.

[layton]

I'd get a 75m single line if it was lighter than a 9.4

 

I learned my lesson the 1st time i used a 70m and only brought 60m worth of gear. now I'll bring an extra alien, junior, #1 camalot, and few extra med nuts.

 

Some people are slowed down by extra weight, but I am slowed down by fiddling for pro and belay changeovers. I climb just as fast and technically with a pack on, but thats cuz I don't lead very hard yet.

 

60m ropes are fine 80% of the time, of course. I won't climb w/a 50m rope since 60m has been the standard for a while and many routes have been put up with a 60m or older routes have had new anchor stations put in w/60m in mind.

 

 

On a side note. Someone should invent a belay device that measures how much rope has gone through (like the rope measurer on the cord cutters in gear shops). Wouldn't that kick ass!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Just to be a nitpicker:

 

60m worth of gear is usually not related to rope length.

 

Some people. I guess one could argue that you should use a 90 meter rope in the alpine and on ice routes.

 

My thoughts are that if the route was not put up in modern era and climbed with a long rope then its more than often climbable with a 60m rope. I call modern *most but not all routes* about 20 years old or so.

 

Yeah invent that belay device you gear making readers.

[J_Fisher]

I think 70s make the most sense if you're trying to go fast on really long routes, you're comfortable placing very little gear and you're fit enough for the route that you can comfortably link the pitches in question. There are routes where 70s would be VERY nice (pitches 5/6 on Polar Circus come to mind). People like to say that rope drag is not an issue on ice, but on rambly routes, especially if you're dragging the rope over snow ledges and stuff, or if the ropes are soaking wet, drag can be an issue. It's all a compromise, just pick what makes sense for you. Personally, the cluster quotient with anything over 60 seems too high to me.

 

[whoops, I meant P 4/5 above]

Edited January 16, 2004 by J_Fisher

[Led_Hed]

I think there are some good points being made here, but I'll throw one more twist in the conversation...

Using 70m twins means that you will be able to cover mega distances between belays, even more so than a single 70m because of the straighter lines/less drag. I have a hard enough time hearing my partners on alpine and ice routes when the wind is pumping and/or there is a bulge or dome between me and them. That extra ten meters may mean some pretty agrivating communication issues, and with 70m of really stretchy half rope running between you, rope tugs are a little harder to read. You'd also have to buy two ropes right away cause the chances you end up craggin' with someone who has the same rig is a bit slim, unless of course they are you regular partner. Just a thought.

[Dru]

rope drag can alo be a prob on the steeps when the ropes get caught under chandeliers or icicles

[David_Parker]

I solved this dillema by buying 60M ropes for me and talking my partners into buying 70M ropes! Now we can chose according to what route we do.

 

The first time I did Polar Circus, a 70 meter rope would have been great and saved a lot of time. The second time we still only had 60M ropes but since I was more familiar with the route, the belayer just started climbing when the rope came tight so the leader could reach the top belay. It wasn't that much simulclimbing nor difficult ground and there were enough screws in by then to make it safe. I noticed 70M ropes would have helped somewhat on Sycronicity, but it's wasn't that big of a deal to only have 60's. It's probably one of those "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" thingys.

 

Communication between 60M is hard enough. 70M is even worse. Still, I'm thinking of getting some 80M or 90M ropes and carrying radios!

[thelawgoddess]

stephen, regarding ames i meant the hose; not the entire area (which last i heard is technically "closed" to climbing anyway). from what i hear the first pitch of the hose gets beat to hell pretty quick and becomes too thin.

 

michael, i hope to get on the whorehouse hoses in a couple of weeks or so.

 

led, i don't want twins; i want halfs (also known as doubles). either way, i would most certainly buy two.

 

listening to this discussion (and thinking about where and what i want to use them for) i'm pretty tempted to go with 75's ...