thelawgoddess Posted April 24, 2002 Posted April 24, 2002 and maybe i missed it, but is there a specific time? Quote
Guest Posted April 24, 2002 Posted April 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by specialed: How about the new wine bar in Fremont. Erik can order the cheese platter I'll have a nice bordeaux and MattP and I can debate if Evian is truly a better bottled water than Perrier. sounds like the sort of bitch ass conversation you'd hear at a Pub Club, or on an over forty dating chatline. I won't debate that you're both gay! Quote
Dave_Schuldt Posted April 24, 2002 Posted April 24, 2002 OK Alki is fine by me. May not be there. Quote
Dave_Schuldt Posted April 24, 2002 Posted April 24, 2002 I hope you all had a good time, I got a masage so I didn't feel like riding over there. See you at Vantage tomarow!!!! Quote
specialed Posted April 24, 2002 Posted April 24, 2002 Y'all missed a good time. 75 cent burgers, beer, and biker chics. Alki Taverns the bomb, pube club should be there every week. Quote
mattp Posted April 24, 2002 Posted April 24, 2002 All you who left early really missed out: Lambone made his first appearance at a pub club. He and his friends showed us how to do one-armed pullups on beams above the bar, and we carried on the ethical debate until last call (Dwayner, Hikerwa, Lambone and I). Quote
Lambone Posted April 25, 2002 Posted April 25, 2002 werd matt...'xcept I thought we were just all finding multiple ways to agree upon the same thing for absolutly no other reason than to waste time...it rocked! Â and just for the record, dwayner ain't the old fucker that I once thought he was...just the middle aged fucker.... Â [ 04-25-2002, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ] Quote
Dwayner Posted April 30, 2002 Posted April 30, 2002 I've been away for a few days so I've just read some of the stuff from last week and came across this charming comment from Lamebone: "and just for the record, dwayner ain't the old fucker that I once thought he was...just the middle aged fucker..." And just when I was starting to like the guy...  Two comments. "just for the record": 1) Grow up, Lamebone. 2) Very "mature" choice of words. - Dwayner  P.S. Self-assessment time: you ever wonder why people think you're a jackass? Quote
Lambone Posted April 30, 2002 Posted April 30, 2002 Actually, no I couldn't care less about what you or anyone else that I hardly know thinks of me. If you want to make your judgements based on superficial inernet bullshit then go right ahead. Â The fact that you even think that I value your opinion toward me is evidence of your own self righteousness. Here is a tip, if you ever want anyone to respect the ethical bullshit you spew, then sign up in a Listening Skills 101 class ASAP. I can't believe you demand respect from a generation that you mock and scoff at...as far as I'm concerned you can stick your double standard up your ass and spin on it . Â Anyway, I was joking around you asshole...lighten up "Mr. Aloha." Â But since you wanted to get agro here, this is what I think of you: In my opinion, you are just another one of those people who can't wait until the other person is done speaking so that you can get the last word. I doubt you remember anything I said to you that night because you were too busy formulating your own hypotheses, waiting for your turn to spew. However, I remember most of what you said, especially the comment about the kids who are learning to climb today...and how they will get a probably new Bosch for Christmas...etc.,etc. Remember that comment...the one where you openly insulted something that I said was important to me...? Â And you are the one asking ME why people think I AM the jackass...try looking in the mirror sometime bro. Â [ 04-30-2002, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ] Quote
willstrickland Posted April 30, 2002 Posted April 30, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: I can't believe you demand respect from a generation that you mock and scoff at... He's got a point there Dwayner. I was taught at a very early age that you command respect by giving respect. I must admit, I'm a bit surprised at late with your seemingly fragile ego...not trying to flame you here, you just seem to be "in a delicate way" the last couple of months. Quote
Dwayner Posted April 30, 2002 Posted April 30, 2002 Since Mr. Lambone fully expects me to attempt to have the last word, I won't disappoint him. A history lesson: I am not a member of Warren Harding's generation. He was more than 30 years older than me. I started climbing as a teenager in 1973 and the big talk then was of a new ethic known as "Clean Climbing", which in many ways was a response to the bolting and piton bashing antics of Harding and others. Basically, it is the climbing equivalent of the backpackers' mottos: Pack it in, pack it out; leave little or no trace. This very often translates into limiting bolt and piton use as much as possible. This is something I advocate not just because that's what I was taught, but because I believe that it is the correct way to address the environment. This concept is the basis for much of my view. - Dwayner Quote
max Posted April 30, 2002 Posted April 30, 2002 See, when you say it like that, you don't piss nearly as many people off! Â to clean climbing! Quote
AlpineK Posted April 30, 2002 Author Posted April 30, 2002 I'm laughing at Dwayner and Lambone's fight, but I don't like KTK being brought into this. I don't think either of you 2 are members. Quote
Dwayner Posted April 30, 2002 Posted April 30, 2002 Don't know exactly what or who the KTK is so I assume I'm not a member. You'll have to take that up with Lambone who used the term. Keep laughin, Alpine K. and maybe I'll see you tonight in the City of Destiny. Quote
Lambone Posted May 1, 2002 Posted May 1, 2002 Hey 'K, I founded the godamn KTK! Just let me know if you need a history lesson on the topic... Â Just for the record, the source of my anger today was being obligated to conduct tedious affairs indors whilst mine alpine bretheran commenced the pulling of stone in the briliant sunshine...poor me. Â Dwayner was just the poor victim of my inner angst. He be my muthafucka... Quote
Dwayner Posted May 1, 2002 Posted May 1, 2002 Hey Lambone: I don't "demand" respect and I really don't care if you value my opinions. I'm only interested in sharing ideas, some of which reflect values which I find are worthwhile and are being lost by and to the present younger generation of climbers. Take them or leave them as you please. - Mr. Aloha P.S. I'm spinnin'! Quote
Lambone Posted May 1, 2002 Posted May 1, 2002 Yeah. Well my point is, that if you had shut the fuck up for two minutes and listened to me, you might have realized that we share the same opinion. We just have two different ways of approaching the problem. Quote
max Posted May 1, 2002 Posted May 1, 2002 The "I-don't-care-what-you-think" thing just doesn't fly from either of you. If you didn't care, why are you getting worked up about this and spending time writing about it? Â My opinion: anyone who speaks from a position of "authority", "maturity" or "wisdom" is setting themselves up for being a hypocrite, sticking their foot in their mouth, and pissing people off. Especially if their not wise enough to understand and tolerate the arrogance and crassness of youth. Â But it doesn't matter if they don't care what other people think.... Quote
AlpineK Posted May 1, 2002 Author Posted May 1, 2002 Burp.. oh excuse me. Don't get into this with me L. I just got back from defending you with Dr. D... and drinking a bunch of beer. Quote
max Posted May 1, 2002 Posted May 1, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: ...values which I find are worthwhile and are being lost by and to the present younger generation of climbers. I think you and I have talked about this before too. Don't blame the "present younger generation of climbers" for what you'r beefs with where climbing's going. I know plenty of geezers that clip and drill bolts, and I know plenty of punks that are very much into a high ethical standard and probably have as much respect for the spirit of climbing as you. When you make false accusations like the above, you're going to piss people off. Quote
Dwayner Posted May 1, 2002 Posted May 1, 2002 Max: This whole thing started as a response to Lambone's crass characterization of myself as a "middle age f@#ker" (which despite its vulgarity, was probably made in jest.) The fact remains, a good number of new climbers (of whatever age) are not being taught the range of ethical issues. They might start, for example, in a gym and end up at a sport-bolted crag in short order, and what is seen there is perceived as how it is and should be done. Bolting, as the most visible issue, is loaded with ethical baggage which I seriously doubt is reviewed and considered. It's true: I don't seek Lambone's personal approval or anybody else's, but I do care about the rocks and mountains and will continue to spew forth my opinions whether anyone likes them or not. Perhaps I will sway a few. Quote
Lambone Posted May 1, 2002 Posted May 1, 2002 'Cause it's better then doing GIS...for the moment. Â It's not really Dwayner that upsets me. I'm very much a to-each-his-own kinda person. Thats' why I typicaly stay out of the bolting debate. Â The thing that bothers me is the attitude that many "elietist KTK" for lack of a better term, old schoolers walk around with. It's like they have written off the youth as a generation that is bound to fuck everything up, and forget about the ethics that they grew up with. Â It is a fact of life that there are different types of climbers, with different ethics. That is never going to change .The problem, in my opinion, is the lack of communication and respect between the those groups. Â Attitudes like the one Mr. Dwayner displays publcly foster the growth of seperation between mad-bolters and trad climbers, boulderers and aid-climbers...whatever. The comments and stereotypes that come out of this type of discourse only lead to resentment and disrespect. Â I'm not saying that this is all Dwayners fault, it's everyones. He is not a hypocrite, he is bitter and has good reason to be, he upholds to his values 100%...and I respect that. But the way slams the youth and portrays over-bolting as some sort of new phenomenon is total bullshit. The bolting standards were also set by his generation (Warren Harding for example), and the clean climbing ethic is not prevalent enough in todays "sport" crowd due to a lack of cohesion within the climbing community. Most of this is driven by the media... Â Anyway...blah,blah,blah...this is more fun over beers. no hard feelings, enjoy the sun! Quote
mikeadam Posted May 1, 2002 Posted May 1, 2002 I'm not old school, elitist, pro bolt, pro trad, pro guiding, pro mountain sports, prohibition, prophylactic, pro Dwayner, pro Lamebone... Â The KTK is about friends, climbing, mountains, & good times...leave us oughtta your angst. Quote
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