sk Posted April 18, 2002 Posted April 18, 2002 I agree with allison. I don't know crap about much, but camping and then climbing with 90?!?!?!?! Yuck! Our little trainer crag here in town gets loaded fast, UofO uses it, river house and other groups, not to mention me and the crew... More than 10 or 15 and you just can't get anything done, too bussy saying "excuse me". I've often considered taking an intermidiate rock class, or mtreer, I am totaly rethinking that. Seems safer to learn from some one I know who will work with just little 'ol me. I read some where up there that chris can't watch all of his people to stop litter... how is he going to stop them from killing themselve??? Don't want to be cranky, but realy... educate me. Quote
Matt Posted April 18, 2002 Posted April 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by chucK: quote:Originally posted by allison: oh, come ON ChucK, you really think a group of 90 is the same as your examples? Don't make me stick that electric cattle prod in your ear again, or you won't have ANY brain cells left, let alone your poor tastebuds. I liked that cattle-prod thingy. It seemed to organize my thoughts, make my life so much more clear.  Do you support the quotas on Mt. Rainier, Boston Basin, the Enchantments or not? I support quotas in those areas. I hiked in the Upper Enchantments last June and it felt like my partner and I were the only ones there. I think it's worth it for that. [ 04-18-2002, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Matt ] Quote
allison Posted April 18, 2002 Posted April 18, 2002 I'm okay with party size maximums and permits for some areas as long as the policy is thoughtful. Really prefer to never see a party larger than 8 or maybe an occasional dozen anywhere myself. I agree that the Enchantments are a really nice place to visit based on the permit system. Â I know there's an argument for going to less popular places if you want to get away from the crowds, but the flip side of that is that places are classic often because they are exceptional. Â I'm Ok with the Mounties descending on places like the Icicle, but not in numbers like 90. That's just waay too many. Â I know you like it when I use the prod, but it is really not good for you, and I need to make sure you don't become dependant on it for your sole source of enjoyment. Quote
chris_w Posted April 18, 2002 Author Posted April 18, 2002 Descending on Icicle...We will be at 6 areas out of the 50+ that I counted in the guide book. I know...some of them are good classic areas, that is why we are there. We have reserved the Lg camping area so we don't take up all the single sites (for the few of you that pay for camping) and we do carpool from the camping area to minimize the cars on the road and snow creek parking lot. Â Question: Besides not having any Mountaineers in the Icicle, would you rather have a large group in a couple of areas or a couple scattered over more climbing areas? Let's start a poll. Â No offence taken....Unless you meant it Quote
rayborbon Posted April 18, 2002 Posted April 18, 2002 The real kicker is Hey Chris how many hot chicks in this course. Can I be an instructor if there are at least 10 hotties ?? I sumbit my resume- Â I climbed: Â The Tooth Ingalls Peak Chair Peak NE Butt Solo Super Slab Midway Direct Quote
chris_w Posted April 18, 2002 Author Posted April 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: The real kicker is Hey Chris how many hot chicks in this course. Can I be an instructor if there are at least 10 hotties ?? I sumbit my resume-  I climbed:  The Tooth Ingalls Peak Chair Peak NE Butt Solo Super Slab Midway Direct My only climbing requirment is that you can CLIMB out of bed each morningon time. If I remember you didn't get up before 10am at the Rope up last year  Ingalls - Only if you soloed the south peak Quote
rayborbon Posted April 18, 2002 Posted April 18, 2002 If solos qualify then I soloed to the fridge for a beer 20 minutes ago. Â I had no reason to wake up before 10 am. Plus I probably drank 3 times what you did too Then got my arse stomped at Index Sunday on steep rock. Quote
pope Posted April 18, 2002 Posted April 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by chucK: quote:Originally posted by pope: A solution to the Mountaineers and their meadow-trampling ways: limit the size of the basic class by charging more money. Pope, I am beginning to see a pattern here. You wanna keep people out of the mountains by charging more money, at the Mountaineers class AND by forcing young punks to buy trad gear. Are you pro Fee-demo too, you elitist pig? The Mounties idea was something I thought of when one day I asked myself, "Under what conditions would I rejoin the Purple Helmet Brigade?" I'd be tempted by the Official Mounties Instructor sticker for my Subaru. And yes, the more kids interested in traditional climbing, the greater the chances somebody will be there to buy my rack when my wife finally makes me quit. Quote
mattp Posted April 18, 2002 Posted April 18, 2002 Thanks Chris. Anybody who doesn't want to find a crowd at Bruce's boulder, Barny's rubble, Lower clamshell, Alphabet rock, Roto wall and Mountaineers Dome can start studying the guidebook to pick other places they'd want to climb. It seems to me those particular crags are perfect places for instructional climbing and, unlike at least one post above, I'd rather see a large group on a roadside or nearly roadside crag than have them hike up the hillside to something that is more remote, where they'd do more damage (the hillsides in Icicle Creek include a lot of sandy, loose slopes where the "trails" are falling away as climbers walk on them, and more people walking more distance will generally lead to more damage).  As to whether there should be groups of this size, I would say that 90 is excessive but I'd rather see 90 climbers in an organized party (where there may be some hope that they will be directed to clean up after themselves and behave) than I would 90 independent climbers who will stomp the bushes trying to find a "private" climb, play their car stereo at a loud volume as they pack up, and maybe bring a dozen dogs. I think the comparison to CascadeClimbers rope-up (last summer) is a valid one – there were a lot or us and I think we probably had GREATER impact than a mountaineers instructional group -- on the crags and on our neighbors at the campground. (We may have had more fun, too.)  I didn't learn to climb through an organized group like the Mountaineers, WAC, or a college outing club, but I have no beef with anyone who wants to do so, and my encounters with such groups in and around Washington state have generally been positive. Quote
chris_w Posted April 18, 2002 Author Posted April 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: If solos qualify then I soloed to the fridge for a beer 20 minutes ago. Â I had no reason to wake up before 10 am. Plus I probably drank 3 times what you did too Then got my arse stomped at Index Sunday on steep rock. Congrats on the solo. I hope to do that route later today. Â You probably did drink 3 times as much as me, I don't remeber kicking Jerry 2 nights in a row Do you remember the chugging contest we had with Hikerwa? I remember you loosing in that one. Let me know when you want a re-match. Quote
rayborbon Posted April 18, 2002 Posted April 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by chris_w: quote:Originally posted by rayborbon: If solos qualify then I soloed to the fridge for a beer 20 minutes ago. Â I had no reason to wake up before 10 am. Plus I probably drank 3 times what you did too Then got my arse stomped at Index Sunday on steep rock. Congrats on the solo. I hope to do that route later today. Â You probably did drink 3 times as much as me, I don't remeber kicking Jerry 2 nights in a row Do you remember the chugging contest we had with Hikerwa? I remember you loosing in that one. Let me know when you want a re-match. I dont recall a chugging contest. All I can say my volume of intake is far greater. So I win anyway. Â As for Jerry kicking well dont sleep out in the open Jerry Quote
imorris Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: a group of 90? ....4 times the size it should be. You hear that? Maximum group sizes of 22.5 people. Quote
chucK Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by pope: A solution to the Mountaineers and their meadow-trampling ways: limit the size of the basic class by charging more money. Pope, I am beginning to see a pattern here. You wanna keep people out of the mountains by charging more money, at the Mountaineers class AND by forcing young punks to buy trad gear. Are you pro Fee-demo too, you elitist pig? Quote
chucK Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 How many people showed at the CascadeClimbers Fall Ropeup last year? I'm just wondering if it was above the amount you guys and gals have deemed acceptable? Ol' Mattp is already starting to devise plans for a truly extravagant extravaganza this Fall. Judging from the recent Pube Clubs there's probably gonna be a shitload of folks wanting to attend that thing. I guess Matt better figure out someway to regulate the number of folks attending. Perhaps he could institute a stiff fee. After all Darrington is a good place to climb if you don't own any trad gear. Â How many of you folks that deem the mountiehoarde unacceptably high also support the quotas on number of summiteers on Mt. Rainier, or campers in the Enchantments? Quote
allison Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 oh, come ON ChucK, you really think a group of 90 is the same as your examples? Don't make me stick that electric cattle prod in your ear again, or you won't have ANY brain cells left, let alone your poor tastebuds. Quote
imorris Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 On limiting group size on Rainier: I remember a couple summers ago I ran into a group of women on the Emmons G. route climbing to celebrate the anniversary for the first female ascensionist (maybe the first ascenionist? dunno). Anyways they had over 50 people on the route, spread out between Schurman and the flats, with pink lawn flamingoes and everything. Basically they had reserved the entire area, even spilling over to Camp Curtis, way down there. Some of them were nice, but many were loud, obnoxious,and for some reason, condescending towards my climbing party, even though many of them were terrifying to watch climb. So yes, I'd like to see that kind of thing limited on Rainier. Not an overall limit on climbers, but limits on group size. Quote
chucK Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: oh, come ON ChucK, you really think a group of 90 is the same as your examples? Don't make me stick that electric cattle prod in your ear again, or you won't have ANY brain cells left, let alone your poor tastebuds. I liked that cattle-prod thingy. It seemed to organize my thoughts, make my life so much more clear. Â Do you support the quotas on Mt. Rainier, Boston Basin, the Enchantments or not? Quote
Bronco Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sk: ...........I've often considered taking an intermidiate rock class, or mtreer, I am totaly rethinking that.... I thought about doing that 2 years ago and looked into it. From what I recall, you can't simply sign up for an intermediate class. You have to start in kindergarden hiking or basic courses first, meet the criteria, pass the tests, about 3 years later you would possibly be able to get into the intermediate class. Maybe chris could confirm or deny this?? Â As an alternative you can join the KTK and quickly reach the Hungover Journeyman Choss and Moss Bushwacker rank with a few short days of climbing with a some sarcastic smart asses who would give you the shirt off their backs as long as you have beer for them. Quote
erik Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Bronco: As an alternative you can join the KTK and quickly reach the Hungover Journeyman Choss and Moss Bushwacker rank with a few short days of climbing with a some sarcastic smart asses who would give you the shirt off their backs as long as you have beer for them. we are currently not accepting applications for positions, as the good weather rapidaly appraoches and the trips begin..... Â though all donations will be accepted in cash form or cold hard cash.... Â email for payment options and sponsership levels... Quote
sk Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Bronco: quote:Originally posted by sk: ...........I've often considered taking an intermidiate rock class, or mtreer, I am totaly rethinking that.... As an alternative you can join the KTK and quickly reach the Hungover Journeyman Choss and Moss Bushwacker rank with a few short days of climbing with a some sarcastic smart asses who would give you the shirt off their backs as long as you have beer for them. sign me up... What kind of beer do you prefer??? Â [ 04-19-2002, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: sk ] Quote
sk Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by erik: quote:Originally posted by Bronco: As an alternative you can join the KTK and quickly reach the Hungover Journeyman Choss and Moss Bushwacker rank with a few short days of climbing with a some sarcastic smart asses who would give you the shirt off their backs as long as you have beer for them. we are currently not accepting applications for positions, as the good weather rapidaly appraoches and the trips begin.....  though all donations will be accepted in cash form or cold hard cash....  email for payment options and sponsership levels... Too bad erik I hear you all have a rippin' time, and that you are quite the crack climber. I believe we have a mutual friend... Quote
mikeadam Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 Correction...we will ALWAYS accept applications from HOT chicks who tele/rando backcountry or lead WI/5.11...or just hot chicks period... Quote
rayborbon Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: Correction...we will ALWAYS accept applications from HOT chicks who tele/rando backcountry or lead WI/5.11...or just hot chicks period... Word! Quote
erik Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sk: [/qb] Too bad erik I hear you all have a rippin' time, and that you are quite the crack climber. I believe we have a mutual friend... Â [/QB] Â Quote
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