dryad Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 When you get beta saying bring a "small alpine rack", what exactly does that mean? Obviously it would depend on where you're going and your own personal preference, but as general guideline, what do you bring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I bring every other stopper and maybe 4-6 cams. Maybe a couple hexes/tricams too. That's about what I took to NE ridge of Triumph recently where a "small alpine rack" was recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 By 'small alpine rack' they mean B cup or smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 from a couple of climbs earlier in the year i've become a big fan of the wild country curved hexes for alpine routes. mix those w/nuts and 4-6 cams and couple small try cams and i'm pretty happy these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 danielpatricksmith said: By 'small alpine rack' they mean B cup or smaller. What makes it "alpine"? Frosty girl? No bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 (edited) A pertinant thread: What Dru Says. See here too. Edited October 27, 2003 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 A small alpine rack for me usually consists of six or eight small stoppers and maybe a few tcu's or aliens, maxing out at about one inch or so. On a granite climb, I might add a red camelot and leave behind some of the tiny stuff. In the winter, I'd bring a couple of pins. I sometimes carry three ice screws for some schrund crossing or something, but I'm assuming you are talking about a predominantly rock rack in your initial inquiry. I don't find much use for pickets, though every time I say this I get four or five responsive posts arguing for how threat they are. For slings, I carry shoulder length ones and maybe a double-shoulder-length one for throwing around a large block or tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 catbirdseat said: A pertinant thread: What Dru Says. See here too. Small rack for a route that you are repeating as opposed to a FA would be 4 hexes 6 nuts and 3-4 tricams plus 6 to 8 shoulder-length slings with 2 biners per sling. Cams are too heavy to take on a "small" rack. if the climb is hard enough you can't be bothered to spend the extra time finding a good hex placement, then don't take a small rack. My dos centavos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 #1 Camalot #7 Stopper 3 carabiners 1 shoulder length sling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 minx said: from a couple of climbs earlier in the year i've become a big fan of the wild country curved hexes for alpine routes. mix those w/nuts and 4-6 cams and couple small try cams and i'm pretty happy these days. niice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Dru makes a good point about the hex's being just as solid as a cam (or more so in some respects) but I'm not sure about the weight assertion -- didn't somebody look it up and show that cams are as light as hex nuts in middle to large sizes? Anyway, I find that I am often more confident of a cam placement when I shove it into some dirt-filled crack that I have just excavated behind what may be an expanding flake. Whether I am right to place any confidence in what is really a piece of crap, well one could argue that point. And I don't remember what was the outcome when the technogeeks debated whether a nut or a camp put more outward force on that loose flake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I believe hexes are lighter than cams across the entire size range. Tricams are even lighter for their size. Ain't that right, Dru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jopa Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 catbirdseat said: I believe hexes are lighter than cams across the entire size range. Tricams are even lighter for their size. Ain't that right, Dru? i'm pretty sure dmm cams are the same weight as the wc hexes with the spectra slings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 mattp said: I'm not sure about the weight assertion -- didn't somebody look it up and show that cams are as light as hex nuts in middle to large sizes? stop it. please. if you dont know then dont write anything. fyi: cams are not as light as hexes for the same size range. however the difference in mass is only one to two ounces. and in terms of volume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 1 or 2 tubular webbing slings to leave behind / backup dubious rap anchors are helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 cmon, everyone knows pitons are where it's at! The limited alpine climbs I have done I carried the above and several pitons. I really like pitons though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 the weight of pitons is not bad but if you are doing a route without a snow/ice approach then its the weight of the hammer that makes the diff. hamnmering with a rock is sooooo suck. i think TCU are lighter than hexes but i only use hexes for the #1 camalot and up sizes where weight saving is notable. also you can hang the hexes around your neck on a sling to clang and impress chicks on the trail, like FB does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 mattp said: A small alpine rack for me usually consists of six or eight small stoppers and maybe a few tcu's or aliens, maxing out at about one inch or so. On a granite climb, I might add a red camelot and leave behind some of the tiny stuff. In the winter, I'd bring a couple of pins. I sometimes carry three ice screws for some schrund crossing or something, but I'm assuming you are talking about a predominantly rock rack in your initial inquiry. I don't find much use for pickets, though every time I say this I get four or five responsive posts arguing for how threat they are. For slings, I carry shoulder length ones and maybe a double-shoulder-length one for throwing around a large block or tree. This is what I use but I always include a red and a gold camelot. Dru's hexes are good too but probably not as familiar to the younger generation of climbers. As a side note, my drilled hexes are noticably lighter than similar size cams. I still prefer the cams for their versitile size range and flare protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Dru said: i think TCU are lighter than hexes but i only use hexes for the #1 camalot and up sizes where weight saving is notable. According to the respective proprietor websites, #11 hex is 6 grams lighter than a #4 Friend. Not that I'm saying a #11 hex or a #4 Friend belong on a Small alpine rack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 is that - just hex, or hex with cord? and what about curve hexes on dyneema or on wire (lighter or heavier?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Bug said: ...my drilled hexes are noticably lighter than similar size cams. I still prefer the cams for their versitile size range and flare protection. Are these custom drilled or were they commercially available at one time? If custom, how does one know whether strength is compromised? I do know that many structures can have material removed with almost no compromise on strength. One example is aluminum booms on sailboats. An aerospace engineer friend cut out panels from the side of the boom on his San Juan 30 and claimed it was actually stronger. I had to take his word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Al_Pine said: According to the respective proprietor websites, #11 hex is 6 grams lighter than a #4 Friend. Not that I'm saying a #11 hex or a #4 Friend belong on a Small alpine rack... #11 hex huh? you back on horse again cuz you acting all high and shit. who makes a #11 hex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Dryad Looks like there's a lot of variation in what one means by 'small alpine rack'. Sometimes you're given additional information in a route description such as rack to 2 inches. It's been in my limited experience that you have to evaluate what you know about the route (beta) to determine gear needs. It helps if you provide the name of a specific climb if you want gear beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 lummox said: #11 hex huh? you back on horse again cuz you acting all high and shit. who makes a #11 hex? http://www.bdel.com/gear/rock/protection.php#hexes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 if they made a #15 hex you could use it as a bombproof bivi shelter as well as for pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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