Heli Skiing in the Waddington etc. Ranges

[fern]

A group from Arizona called Grand Chilcotin Heli Skiing

has applied to the Provincial Government Dept of Lands Office in Williams

Lake for a license to start heli skiing in a large area that includes the

Pantheon and Waddington Ranges. The long term plan is for a large scale heli

skiing operation.

 

Letters or emails expressing concern for this plan can be sent to these people:

 

Pentti Leppanen & Duncan Watson

201 172 N. 2nd Ave

Williams Lake, BC V2G 1Z6

 

Pentti Leppanen- pentti.leppanen at gems9.gov.bc.ca

Duncan Watson- duncan.watson at gems9.gov.bc.ca

 

I quote from John Baldwin (guidebook author):

 

the Pantheon and Waddington

Ranges offer some of the most spectacular backcountry skiing to be found

anywhere in the world. One of the most unique features of Pantheon and

Waddington Ranges is their wilderness character. This is something not

always found in other parts of the world and would be destroyed if

heli-skiing was developed here.

 

Heli-skiing and backcountry skiing have been mixed in other areas of BC.

The majority of the interior ranges such as the Selkrks, the Cariboos,

the Monashees and the Purcells have been carved up for Heli-skiing

licenses. As a result there are very few areas left for wilderness

backcountry skiing in the interior of BC.

 

Heli-skiing is already well established in other areas of the Coast

Mountains, notably large areas surrounding Whistler, Pemberton and

Goldbridge. I feel strongly that keeping heli-skiing out of the Pantheon

and Waddington Ranges is not an unreasonable portion of the Coast

Mountains to set aside from heli-skiing.

 

I realize that heli-skiing has attractive economic benifits. But I

question whether much of this would benefit the local economy in the

Chilcotin. In contrast backcountry skiing is already supporting a

steadily growing industry of aircraft charter companies, local guides,

tour operators, and local accomodations.

 

I believe Dru and Captain Caveman have posted pictures in the gallery

of some partions of these ranges.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Cool

[mattp]

I take it that Pentti Leppanen & Duncan Watson work in that Lands office, and have some role in deciding whether to grant a permit. Do you know anything else about the status of this matter, what might be involved in the permit process, or who is in support of/against it?

 

[fern]

 

 

John Baldwin got the following from Ryan Foster, who lives at Twist Lake

 

 

I would like to ask for your voice in regards to a new

heli ski operation which is applying for tenure in the

BC Central coast. Grand Chilcotin Heliskiing is a group

from Arizona. Their application is being processed

through the Land Water and Air government office out of

Williams Lake by Pentti Leppanen and Duncan Watson. I

have had the chance to express some of my concerns to

both Duncan and Penti. I am concerned that the "world

class" ski touring and heli assisted (drop off) ski

touring in the Waddington and Pantheon Ranges will see and

feel adverse effects of an unrestricted HeliSkiing operation.

 

I have outlined in brief some information (below) as

well as a proposal which stresses the need for a formal

agreement which will address all interest groups (Public

recreation, local BC operators, Associations & Clubs,

Government agencies, and the Heli skiing applicant).

Both Pentti and Duncan would like to hear from groups,

individuals and operators who have special interests in

and concerns for the future of the Central Coast.

 

Please read the leter I sent to Duncan and Pentti (below)

 

 

09/17/2003

 

To: Duncan Watson and Pentti Leppanen

 

In regards to: The application for tenure by Grand

Chilcotin Heliskiing

 

To begin I would like to state that I, as a West Chilcotin

local, believe that a heli skiing venture will have a

positive influence toward the commercial and recreational

future of the Central Coast. From the information I have

gathered, the proposed venture is, for the first 3 years,

a low scale operation which will utilize one A-star

helicopter (8 guest capacity). Pending success and

viability the company hopes to introduce another machine

in a 3 to 5 year time frame. The proposed area incorporates

the Pantheon, Waddington, and Niut ranges as well as other

areas (unknown in specifics to myself) which lie west of

Chilko Lake.

 

Though I believe Heli skiing is a viable industry which may

positively impact the local community and tourism in general

for the Central Coast, I would like to express concern and

propose a fair solution for the future of the Pantheon Range.

 

Those familiar with the Central Coast will support the fact

that the Pantheon Range is held in high regard as a world

class ski touring destination. Knowing this, I hold concern

for non mechanized (self propelled ski touring/ski mountaineering)

groups and for heli supported (machine drop off)

ski touring/ski mountaineering groups. This concern extends

for both public recreational users and for other existing or

future local commercial users which have non mechanized winter

interests.

 

Though ski touring and heli skiing are winter industries and

activities of similar desire (to ski untouched lines in the

backcoutnry) the two activities have not traditionally held

a harmonious and symbiotic relationship. For non mechanized

users visiting the Pantheon Range the presence of heli skiing

would vastly detract from the world class experience of this

high interest area. The degraded experience for non mechanized

and heli assisted groups would be caused by:

 

1) a potentially dramatic increase in helicopter traffic and

noise pollution and the presence of heli ski groups.

 

2) the impact of heli skiers "skiing out" the typically dry

winter snow pack of the Pantheon Range.

 

Additional Concerns:

 

Due to the dry winter snow pack of the Pantheon Range it is

conceivable that even a low number of heli skier visits may

leave lasting impact during low precipitation periods. These

low precipitation periods have been know to last for weeks

and may compound the impact (skied out runs) caused by heliskiing

in this high interest area.

 

According to Grand Chilcotin Heliskiing the Pantheon Range

makes up only 10% of their proposed operating area. Having

operations based out of Bluff Lake and Whitesaddle Air

Service suggests that the Pantheon Range may see greater

than projected use as a poor weather backup option. This

would be due to geography and the circumstance of inclement

weather. A high percentage of the public and commercial

users who visit this region of the Coast during the ski

touring season are using, often exclusively, the Pantheon

Range. Considering the fact that the Pantheon Range makes

up approximately 10% of the proposed tenure yet remains a

high interest destination for other users, the following

proposal may seem more reasonable.

 

Proposition:

 

I believe that a fair portion of the Pantheon Range should

be reserved exclusively for the self propelled and mechanically

assisted (machine drop off) user groups. I feel this area

closure should cover the peak ski touring season in the

Pantheon Range which extends from February thru the month

of April. Further research and consultation with all

potential user groups (public recreation, local commercial

operators, and Grand Chilcotin Heliskiing) will allow for

an agreement upon a well defined plan for the Pantheon Range

and its users.

 

The area which I propose the heliskiing closure is in general

the entirety of the Pantheon Range up to the northern side

of both Crazy Creek and Frontier Creek.

 

 

This written concern and proposal will be followed by written

views and or support from some or all of the following

individuals/groups:

 

- Association of Canadian Mountain Guides

- Alpine Club of Canada

- BC Mountaineering Club

- John Baldwin: author of Exploring the Coast Mountains on Skis

- Brian Jones: Canada West Mountain School

- Outward Bound Canada

- Chris McNiell : representative of Mountain Equipment Coop.

 

I understand that Lands Water and Air are not required to

act upon this concern. However, I feel strongly that in the

long term it is in the best interest of BC's social and

natural environment to consider all elements before granting

any blanket tenure applications. Thank you for your help on

this Duncan and Pentti. <snip>

 

Sincerely,

Ryan Foster

Waddington Challenge Enterprises Ltd.

 

Please send your comments and concerns in written form:

mail or email to

 

Pentti Leppanen & Duncan Watson

201 172 N. 2nd Ave

Williams Lake, BC V2G 1Z6

 

Pentti Leppanen- pentti.leppanen@gems9.gov.bc.ca

Duncan Watson- duncan.watson@gems9.gov.bc.ca

 

If you would like to contact Ryan Foster please call

 

604 902 1378

 

or email:

meohhmaya AT hotmail.com

and cc to:

sandcreek AT coyote.chilcotin.bc.ca

 

 

[mattp]

I'd be inclined to think Mr. Foster has a point. The interior ranges are all pretty heavily served by helicopter skiing and it is difficult to go for any kind of extended ski trip there without encountering or at least hearing helicopters, as is also the case in the more southerly part of the Coast Range or in the area closer to Bella Coola. I'd be for keeping one part of the range more oriented toward touring.

[JoshK]

What business does any service from Arizona have in heli skiing!?!?

[glassgowkiss]

here we go again, pissing match! i have my little playgroung and all the rest of you fuckers stay away from it! What a bunch of hyppie earth hugging biggots.

ok- one helicopter- oh my what a noise pollution!

dry snowpack????? wtf- my turf not yours, my wave not yours.

as you can see i am for it, maybe access to Wadington range will be cheaper!

[snoboy]

One helicopter impacts hundreds if not thousands of acres of terrain. One touring group would be invisible to another group just around the corner. They are already in many areas in BC. Same with snomobiles.

 

Why can there not be one little area set aside for non motorized recreation?

[erik]

snoboy said:

One helicopter impacts hundreds if not thousands of acres of terrain. One touring group would be invisible to another group just around the corner. They are already in many areas in BC. Same with snomobiles.

 

Why can there not be one little area set aside for non motorized recreation?

 

can you not fly into the wadd range currently? as well as the rest of the listed mtns?? i thought only world heritage parks had a complete ban on all mechincal anything!

 

 

[snoboy]

I feel that there is a big difference between mechanized access and the all day operations of a heli skiing company.

 

Yes you can fly there no prob, but this is a different issue.

[erik]

how so?

 

can one not fly anywhere in the coast range? so what is the difference between landing once and landing 3 times? it does sound slightly like local elitism. does it have anything to do with the fact that the company is out of arizona?

 

 

i personally dont have an opinion on this, i just dont see what the big deal is.

[fern]

the particular issue raised in concern by Ryan Foster and

John Baldwin here is not about banning motorized access to

these ranges. It is about granting a Tenure to

ONE particular company. A Tenure is something

like a monopoly lease on crown land. I.E. the company with

the tenure has the sole rights to commercial use of a

particular area. ( I am sure there is a better explanation of

tenures, but this is the flavour).

 

In this case as I read it two major concerns have been raised.

 

#1) The interested company is from Arizona

and so there is no benefit to the local economy which has already

been developing with guides, air charters etc. run by people who

live in the area (for example Mike King). This is a local

economic concern, and maybe not something that most people here

would have much reason to care about.

 

 

#2) The company wishes to use the area for Heleskiing (not

to be confused with helicopter-access backcountry skiing

and ski-mountaineering). Heleskiing involves having the

helicopter pick people up at the bottom of the run, fly

them to a new runhover around, pick them up, fly around

etc. The helicopter is running pretty much constantly. This

is a volume of air traffic that has not previously been

experienced in this particular range, even though people have

certainly been flying into and out of the range for around

50 years. This is an environmental and aesthetic concern.

 

hope this clear some things up. If you feel strongly either

way then I encourage you to write to the people and addresses

given in previous posts. If you don't care, good for you.

I only posted to share some info that was given to me to a

wider audience. It is not an invitation to debate the wider

question of the evils of air-support or whatever. Why not

start a new thread if that is your axe to grind.

 

[mattp]

Erik and Glasgow-

There is really quite a difference between using helicopters to access and area and using them for repeated ski runs. True, a helicopter is a helicopter, and there may be a measure of some kind of self-indulgence on the part of those who use a helicopter to get somewhere and would prefer not to hear others riding back and forth all day long, but that does not mean in my view that those who like to ski tour should either be willing to walk from the highway or accept that the wilderness is to be overrun with helicopter traffic. IF they were saying that they don't want people to be able to go helicopter skiing, that would be one thing. It is quite another to say that, now that 90% or whatever of the alpine areas south of Prince George are already helicopter served, they'd like to have a different rule for the remaining 10%. It is in some ways analogous to those who enjoy some bolt-protected climbing but don't want sport climbing to take over everywhere.

[snoboy]

erik said:

how so?

 

can one not fly anywhere in the coast range? so what is the difference between landing once and landing 3 times? it does sound slightly like local elitism. does it have anything to do with the fact that the company is out of arizona?

 

i personally dont have an opinion on this, i just dont see what the big deal is.

 

Because if a heli comes in and drops off some passengers and leaves that takes all of about 10 or 15 minutes. If they are skiing the glacier across the valley from you all day while you are touring up a ridge nearby, then they are annoying you all day. There are some of us who like to be able to enjoy the wuiet wilderness once in a while, and those places are getting fewer and fewer.

 

For me it has absolutely nothing to do with them being from Arizona. I would not support a BC company aplying for tenure there either.

[iain]

and to have to look at those sweet powder spoons all day? sickening.

[erik]

i just think it odd, that one form of air transporation is okay, but another is not. irregardless of the time duration it is still the same thing.

 

and sorry for discussing it fern.

[snoboy]

air transport is OK, and in some areas of the coast, the only practical method.

 

would you rather have one siren go by you house, or would you like to live next to the hospital, the police station, and the fire hall?

 

It's not like there aren't lots of other areas to go heli skiing.