Climbing Accidents and the Media

[Necronomicon]

This post was originally in the "Leavenworth Climbing Accident" thread, but got deleted by a well-meaning moderator that, IMHO, lacked the fortitude to face the truth within at such a dark time.

 

This post belongs in the Climbing forum, beacuse it is not Spray, but is instead a rational attempt on my part to express my feelings about a serious issue, to the rest of the climbing community.

 

 

 

First of all, let me start by expressing my sincere condolences to the friends and family of this individual. This sucks.

 

NEWSTIPS: You and your vile ilk are blood sucking, festering winged carrion eaters. You think you're doing everyone a favor, but what if I happen to know this guy (I do live in Bellingaham) and I get to hear about his tragic death:

 

1) On a public BBS, typed out in cold blood, rather than from a friend or family member.

 

2) From a member of an industry which exists for the sole purpose of exploiting other peoples misery in order to function as a matrix for the interstitial sale of the products of its advertisers.

 

Do you actually think that posting this infromation would be helping me out right now? Can you dirtbags even think enough before you "Report" to consider people's feelings any more, or are you so desenstized to human suffering that you can't remember how it can be inflicted?

 

-J

Edited September 23, 2003 by erik

[erik]

other then the personal attack it is a valid statement.

 

 

[jon]

I think it would be good if names were left out. My friend was killed on Saturday, and I would have been pretty upset if I'd found out on the internet versus hearing it from a friend and having someone to talk to about it.

 

I'm sure you mean well but lets leave the names out when news breaks.

[Necronomicon]

I always include personal attacks when I speak with the media about this issue, as I have on a number of occassions. Their expolitation of people's misery, is, in my eyes, as dispicable as child molestation, and is therefore deserving of personal attack.

[NEWSTIPS]

I received this same message as a PM and respoinded to it. Since Necro felt the need to make his sentiments public, I feel it only appropriate that I respond publicly.

---------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for writing. I appreciate your comments even if they were personally insulting and not constructive in the least.

 

To respond to your concerns:

 

1. The posting that I made did not give the name of the deceased climber. We do not know who he is. His family has not been notified and that is why his name has not been released.

 

2. I can't speak for the rest of my industry, but MY purpose is not to exploit anyone. I know that members of this board want to be informed of incidents such of this one so I was merely passing the information along, as I have more immediate access to information than others might have. Please note that I did not ask if anyone knew the poor climber who fell, nor have I made any attempts to solicit any other information pertaining to this accident or the people involved from the members of this board.

 

3. Yes, I did think about people's feelings before making that posting. I try to think about people's feelings before making phone calls about news stories, posting information about news, and in all aspects of my life, both professional as well as personal.

 

Your personal attacks on my character were unwarranted. I don't know you and would never presume to call you names, so please extend me the same courtesy.

 

Elizabeth

 

 

[Necronomicon]

And my response.....

 

 

Elizabeth,

 

I am not surpirsed that you found my comments to be completely unconstructive.

 

Do not delude yourself into thinking that you do not exploit people's misery. Although your arguments that you did not post this persons name, etc, hold some weight, you work in an industry that has historically used human suffering and misery as spectacle, in order to earn monetary profits. I find this to be beneath contempt. As an example, I ask you what your lead story will be this evening. Will it be about the great weather? Or will it be about someone's suffering?

 

Additionally, by posting under the "NEWSTIPS" avatar, you pose as an anonymous representative of what I consider to be a loathsome occupation. My attacks are therefore directed at every member of your profession, not just you, so please, don't take it personally. I'm sure you're above reproach.

 

-Justin

[DrPhil]

The Four Stages of Grief

 

According to Dr. Phil, the biggest challenge people who are grieving will deal with is getting their minds around what they are facing. If you are in the grieving process, you can expect to go through these four stages:

 

1. Shock: Feeling numb. You may wake up wondering, "Is this real?"

 

2. Denial: Being unable to accept the situation. You may find yourself thinking, "This can't be happening. It's not real."

 

3. Anger: Wanting to lash out at everyone. You may continually ask, "How can this happen?"

 

4. Resolution: Feeling like there is a way past the grief, an end to the sadness. You may say to yourself, "I will get through this."

 

During the grieving process, you may feel like you are on an emotional roller coaster ride, but things will get better if you allow yourself to heal.

 

[NEWSTIPS]

Necronomicon said:

by posting under the "NEWSTIPS" avatar, you pose as an anonymous representative of what I consider to be a loathsome occupation. My attacks are therefore directed at every member of your profession, not just you, so please, don't take it personally.

-Justin

 

By that logic, I would have to assume that all climbers are assholes who enjoy reading "The Book of the Customs of the Dead" (definition I found for Necronomicon).

 

I don't make that assumption that your comments represent the views and opinions of all climbers so you should not make the assumption that I represent the views and beliefs of other members of my profession.

[Mr._Natural]

NEWSTIPS said:

Necronomicon said:

by posting under the "NEWSTIPS" avatar, you pose as an anonymous representative of what I consider to be a loathsome occupation. My attacks are therefore directed at every member of your profession, not just you, so please, don't take it personally.

-Justin

 

By that logic, I would have to assume that all climbers are assholes who enjoy reading "The Book of the Customs of the Dead" (definition I found for Necronomicon).

 

I don't make that assumption that your comments represent the views and opinions of all climbers so you should not make the assumption that I represent the views and beliefs of other members of my profession.

 

goddamnit, now dru is going to go off about how that book was written in the 70's to exploit goth wannabees.

[Dru]

but you beat me to it natty goth!

[NEWSTIPS]

NEWSTIPS said:

you should not make the assumption that I represent the views and beliefs of other members of my profession.

 

Oops. Freudian slip. Meant to say that you shouldn't assume I hold the same views and beliefs as others in my profession.

[Mr._Natural]

...

[Dru]

ever since twight started quoting industrial music lyrics all the alpinist wannabes have been secret goths

 

 

oh wait am I wrecking Necro's wonderful thread with spray MY BAD!

[catbirdseat]

Necro, I have met Elizabeth in person at Pub Club and she is a good person. You are making a personal attack on an individual because of your feelings about the media in general. It isn't fair and it isn't right. She didn't do anything wrong in my opinion. If anyone else reported the accident you wouldn't have jumped all over them. Furthermore, it was common knowledge that Elizabeth posts as Newstips.

 

--Brian

[JayB]

Necro:

 

If you need to vent your feelings concerning the media, feel free to do so, but you should channel the righteous indignation and invective at a more a more appropriate target, at a more appropriate time. Elizabeth is no more responsible for the conduct of the media at large than you are responsible for the dismal performance of American public schools in educating a large percentage of the children in this country, and let's remember who ultimately controls the content – the consumers. The manner in which the news is covered is a direct function of the average American’s viewing and reading habits, so if you want to launch into a diatribe there’s your first target.

 

It is quite clear that Elizabeth logically concluded that news of a climbing accident in Leavenworth would be of interest to local climbers, and passed along the story as a favor to those that post and lurk here. The fact of the matter is that climbers are interested in climbing accidents, both because they hit close to home emotionally, and we want to know precisely what happened in the hopes that in doing so we might be able to prevent something similar from happening in the future. If this were not true there would not be any ANAM, and accident reports would not be a staple of every climbing related discussion board on the net.

 

As far as exploitation is concerned, one could argue that you are exploiting this tragedy as a platform to air your laundry list of grievances about the media in a manner that is just as dishonorable as the behavior you are accusing the media of. Let’s remember that the victim’s friends and family suffered the loss here, not you (so far as I know), and if they have issues with the manner in which the media covered the story they should be the ones to articulate them, rather than someone with no personal connection to the deceased climber appropriating the tragedy for use as a platform to condemn the media - ostensibly on their behalf.

 

And lastly, if you took issue with her posting the news here, you could have communicated your feelings just as well without the personal insults and abuse. I’m sure that you would not appreciate someone talking to your wife like that, to say the very least. In the absence of the said civility, you could have least backed up your statements with your real name.

 

-Jay Brazier

 

[klenke]

Jay:

Necro:

 

I basically never take anyone seriously who directs invectives at the very people they are at odds with. Invectives are the tool of the weak mind. So Necro! Ooops!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Necronomicon was a cordial gentlemen both times I have met the man. Although we are at different spectrums in political views I even burned a bowl with him on the Coleman Glacier once within minutes of meeting him.

 

I can fully understand where he is coming from with his comments. However I am not in agreement with his comments about NEWSCHICK.

[Freeman]

Necro, let me add a few comments about this accident specifically. I was there.

 

When we arrived the local newspaper was already there, with a photographer and a reporter who I both know, trust, and respect their work. The photographer hiked up to SCW (I don't know if the reporter did - I didn't see her). We did our business and I finally got back to the trailhead about midnight. They were there, photo flashes in our face, reporter notebook in hand. We answered questions - specific questions about what route they were on and general questions about SCW and questions about what we thought had happened. I told her some of the things I couldn't or wouldn't answer and asked to strike some of my comments after I had thought about them.

 

I rode home with the deputie who had served as the Incident Commander. He was, I guess livid might be the right word, that "those **** reporters kept asking the name of the climber". He refused to give that information, as did the rest of us.

 

As we were driving home, at 12:30 in the morning, he called the county coroner and woke her from her sleep. He said she had wanted a call as soon as the SAR number was closed, whatever the hour. He gave her the victims personal information, name, drivers license, student id, etc, as well as information from the partner. I asked him why, at 12:30 in the morning, he was doing all that, and he said that she (the coroner) wants to start working on notifying the next of kin (How would you like that job).

 

By 8 next morning there were already messages from 2 reporters and one more on the line. I told one that the last time he had misquoted me I told him I would never give him another interview, answered some clarifying questions from the one who had covered the rescue, and told the 3rd that her story on a related, but controversial, aspect of our rescues was not appropriate at this time.

 

When I saw the story in the paper tonight I was pleased and satisfied. The name of the deceased was not give as the next of kin had not been notified. The photos and story told, fairly accurately, what had happened. I think the media did its job of reporting the news to those of us who want to know what went on.

 

I think the deputie and coroner did their jobs by protecting the identy of the deceased. I think the rescue people did their jobs of handling the situation in the best way we could.

 

I'm always sorry when we learn of bad things thru the news, but in this case I think it was ok.

 

 

[Cpt.Caveman]

Freeman that's great you have been able to follow up with the rest of us with what I see some good details.

 

It's really sad what happened and I am not speculating or armchair quarterbacking any of it. I was not there and I dont know a thing.

 

Accidents happen, people take risks that are inherent to climbing. To nitpick them in arrogant fashion is lame. To learn from them is fine. But in the end I do believe if there is a report of it that is detailed others can learn from it possibly. To expect an real examination of the accident in the first 48 hours might be ridiculous.

 

It sounds as if you had to assist with hauling the dead being from the side of the cliff. This is a sobering task as I have done some body work myself unrelated to climbing and understand.

 

In the end thanks for sharing what you have. It does refresh my mind of some media pursuits.

 

Cheers

 

May his soul rest in peace.

[Dru]

I think FREEMAN you equally did your job by preventing the news media from overreporting or speculating to judge by your account. Good work.

[iain]

Seems like there are bad apples in every orchard. There have been reporters who have "accidently" left behind mics in i.c. rooms and newschopper pilots popping in on freq. to ask "how they can help" live on tv. But then there are plenty of cool reporters who are really interested in getting the right story and will work with you to make it accurate and helpful. Only takes a few lame ones to get a reputation I guess.

[vegetablebelay]

Freeman said:

and told the 3rd that her story on a related, but controversial, aspect of our rescues was not appropriate at this time.

 

 

This had to be the angle about costs and who pays for rescues which seems to be only an issue with climbers.

[catbirdseat]

Cpt.Caveman said:

Necronomicon was a cordial gentlemen both times I have met the man. Although we are at different spectrums in political views I even burned a bowl with him on the Coleman Glacier once within minutes of meeting him.

 

I can fully understand where he is coming from with his comments. However I am not in agreement with his comments about NEWSCHICK.

I find it difficult to understand how or why some people can totally abandon their sense of civility and decency when they go online. I've heard others say that Necro is a good climbing partner and an agreeable person. Sure, there are people who take on alternate "persona" for their personal amusement, but this is a very serious and solemn occasion.

 

Climbers and people in general are always going to be interested in accident reports. It reminds us that we are all mortal and live only one small mistake away from a similar fate.

[Doug]

Freeman, thanks for the info. I think most of us who use this board truly are interested in factual accounts of climbing accidents. As one who has been involved in rescues and body recoveries, I can appreciate the nature of what goes on at the scene, it is not any fun at all.

 

Based on some experience I've had with the media, I can undesrtand some of necro's tirade. It's unfortunate that someone like newstips has to bear the brunt. I made some comments in another thread started by newstips about a reporter that works for her station , and can tell you that his "reporting" on a SAR mission 2 years ago was one of the most irresponsible things I have ever experienced. As much good as any of these folks can do, it can all be erased by one idiot like this guy. I suppose he's still employed because his stories generate ratings.

 

[Dru]

what doug said. let us remember that getting accurate information out comes WAY down in second place to getting ratings, selling papers, whatever, for the news media. and very oftyen the decisions on how to spin the story are not made by NEWSTIPS however nice she may be but by some cigar-smoking senior executive with a triple chin and an ulcer. You know, "Run the dead baby in 5, then lotto-winning grandma, then Arnold winning California - oh yeah put some climber accident in there, make them look stupid, get the viewers all riled up about extreme risk takers before the beer commercial comes on"