Dru Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 skin pants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 wool manages moisture very well... in colder conditions i layer a powerstretch top in between, but wool, over a long day, will manage your moisture very well, and you are dry at the end of the day, not wet from sweat. and i recommend keeping your shell mostly off as much as possible except when it starts to get pretty snappy out, and then a soft shell for 85% of it including blizzards and 70 mile an hour winds at ten thousand feet. you just need the right soft shells... Â Â wool rocks, and its warm when wet. and better wood or wool trous, than woody trousers and a round of ferret trousering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjain Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 "On sight v-threader " Â Does this company have a website? I couldn't find anything via google searching... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 babnik said: How many people would go do super remote FA's sportin cotton? Â I would. I agree with the sentiment of what you posted, babnik, but I like cotton. I wear cotton pants and shirts every chance I get. I also don't wear gortex or any modern "softshell" jacket or anything like that (though the schoeller pants are pretty comfy). I wear cotton shirts and underwear even on a winter alpine climb, and I carry a rubberized raincoat and a windbreaker that is little or no more sophisticated than the one your father wore to baseball practice when he was in little league. I do so not because it is cool, but because this stuff works for me. I am often quite comfortable when my friends in their goretex shells and lates generation capilene underwear equivalent are freezing because they've sweated themselves all wet. Â I also vastly prefer wool mittens to any synthetic I have ever tried, and I kind of like wool sweaters. Old school, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 mattp said: babnik said: How many people would go do super remote FA's sportin cotton? Â I would. I agree with the sentiment of what you posted, babnik, but I like cotton. I wear cotton pants and shirts every chance I get. I also don't wear gortex or any modern "softshell" jacket or anything like that (though the schoeller pants are pretty comfy). I wear cotton shirts and underwear even on a winter alpine climb, and I carry a rubberized raincoat and a windbreaker that is little or no more sophisticated than the one your father wore to baseball practice when he was in little league. I do so not because it is cool, but because this stuff works for me. I am often quite comfortable when my friends in their goretex shells and lates generation capilene underwear equivalent are freezing because they've sweated themselves all wet. No, no, no Matt! You HAVE to wear SmartWool, WB-400, and a Patagonia Dimension jacket, otherwise all will be lost! It's the only stuff that works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 cracked said: How does pile 'suck'? Wool hold moisture very well. Â Coldest socks I ever tried were pile socks. Â Gearhead said:I realize that the marketing says the synthetics are good, but what do folks out there who have used both [wool and synth] find? Â I find that I vastly prefer the wool. Seems to keep my temperature more even, and no stink. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Â good alpine gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 snoboy said: cracked said: How does pile 'suck'? Wool hold moisture very well. Â Coldest socks I ever tried were pile socks. Â Gearhead said:I realize that the marketing says the synthetics are good, but what do folks out there who have used both [wool and synth] find? Â I find that I vastly prefer the wool. Seems to keep my temperature more even, and no stink. Â Interesting. I haven't tried wool as a base layer, but I've never had problems with capilene or REI's knockoff. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Â Oh, yeah, I use Smartwool socks. Never felt a difference from synthetic, and they stink just as much. But that's probably my feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 17, 2003 Author Share Posted October 17, 2003 scott_harpell said: Â good alpine gear. Â I prefer chewing on coca leaves. Anyone got a scource?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 michael_layton said:Â I prefer chewing on coca leaves. Anyone got a scource?? Â Try Columbia. I hear Medien is still puttin' out some pretty good stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 i have a friend with a coca plant in his house, it's nasty stuff unless you chew on alkaline lime or something to counter their massive nastiness. Â I will wear a cotton shirt and cotton shorts for most summer. And I am experimenting more with less raincoat. over the ropeup weekend, i wore cotton and wool soft shells and never put on a rainjacket. Â yesterday, i walked around seattle in the morning in a wool coat and an oiled cotton and wool hat. again, no raincoat, and i was more comfortable than 10 minutes in a goretex coat. Â and as testimonial to wool working better as a base layer (this is subjective) on many winter patrols of Rainier, after a long hard day of skiing, i can stand comfortably in what i skied in all day and not experience any undue cooling. by contrast, those people skiing in polypro and their shell clothing began to go hypo and chill rapidly after our ski. usually i can wear the clothes i skied in while making dinner down at the cabin in longmire. Â another case for soft shells. Mount adams SAR in a blizzard and heinous winds. softshell all day (dimension jacket, cracked- go buy one now! LOL) Some of the other team was putting on their second, backup shell during the search. We find the guy and decomission the search. Â By the time we ate dinner at hood River, my jacket was dry and i used it as a throwblanket on the drive back to town. Try doing that with a goretex shell! Â so this soft, wool, and cotton approach does work. some troops like norwegian military use cotton as shell for artic conditions. nuf said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Cascades aren't 'arctic conditions'. Go skiing with Crazy Jeff in a softshell sometime and see how dry you stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 so this soft, wool, and cotton approach does work. some troops like norwegian military use cotton as shell for artic conditions. Â British Antarctic Survey uses it also for clothing and tents. It's marketed as Ventile in Europe. It's fine if everything is well below freezing but does not work in damp environments. I've seen someone get seriously wet in a Ventile jacket in relatively light rain. Of course if it's well below freezing then you don't need GTX either you can go for a much more breathable non-waterproof shell. Â I suspect you'll find that it's also much heavier than an equivalent shell or softshell. I think the reason BAS and the military like it is that it's also very durable. Â Definitely not Cascades gear though. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 It always amazes me how many different opinions on what type of layers are best, yet I constantly see people wearing too MANY layers of high tech stuff thinking it should manage moisture. Fact is, if you wear too many, nothing will work! Personally, I like to wear as little as possible and keep moving. If I have to stop (belay), I have a warm jacket to put on temporarily. My theory is you should be freezing your ass off when you first start out! The Cascades are tricky business because of the moisture, but common sense is your best protection. Â One question I do have....it seems the new stuff has moved from pit zips to the slash pocket opening for ventilation. I think the theory is the pit zips don't really stay open. I don't know if this is really an improvement for me? What's your take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I like pit zips because you can shove your extra gloves and camera on your back (when wearing harness) and it keeps your front side less bulky. Â I didn't realize Beck was demoing the latest in high tech softshell outfitting. I thought he was wearing a leprechaun costume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I don't know about the soft shells, Cracked, but I once went skiing up at Snoqualmie Pass in a rainstorm where we were using umbrellas on the lifts. I was drier in my windbreaker, freshly treated with reviveX or something, than every one of my friends in their gore tex. They were all experiencing leaks in the g-tex and sweating at the same time. I had neither problem. I'm not saying the stuff doesn't work (I'll argue that point tomorrow, though) but it is not the wonder material that many people proclaim it to be and, properly speaking, I think it is neither waterproof nor truly breathable (of course, water isn't breathable so nothing is breathable when it is fully drenched in wet weather). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I think the fabric is truly waterproof, but my current theory is you'll get wet no matter what if it's really raining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Uniroyal makes pretty good stuff, or at least they used to. Tough, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I use to like the old style foamback gear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryad Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 fern said: I didn't realize Beck was demoing the latest in high tech softshell outfitting. I thought he was wearing a leprechaun costume. Well, it rains a lot in Ireland. Leprechauns well may have perfected the optimal clothing system for that climate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 I never felt wet the entire weekend fern! Â wool layers and a thin shell that isn't waterproof will usually keep you feeling drier. and wool as the base layer of it all is an amazing performer. Â I think that was my leprechaun costume i packed over to leavenworth this last weekend, though. but you're right, dryad, the irish and their little cousins have the wet weather figured out- I like a wool sweater as my outer layer lots of times. try it, you might be really, really comfortable at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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