cj001f Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 Where was it msr. cracked that these pants failed you so horribly? Quote
Beck Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 ...were you trying to establish a 'relationship 'with your soft shells? because, softshells do not 'let people down,' they are an option in an active layering system... Â many, many enthusiasts find soft shell to be a big improvement in motion clothing...whatever works for you, you can send the patti pants to me, i'll destroy them for you, but it might take a decade or so! Â Â Â Quote
cracked Posted August 13, 2003 Author Posted August 13, 2003 cj001f said: Where was it msr. cracked that these pants failed you so horribly? Beck said: ...were you trying to establish a 'relationship 'with your soft shells? because, softshells do not 'let people down,' they are an option in an active layering system... Â many, many enthusiasts find soft shell to be a big improvement in motion clothing...whatever works for you, you can send the patti pants to me, i'll destroy them for you, but it might take a decade or so! I never claimed the pants "failed me". I said there are far better options for breathable, weather-resistant outerwear. They don't provide significant wind resistance, that is my primary complaint. Their water resistance is nothing to brag about, either. Â Beck: by your reasoning, NO clothing can 'let you down', EVERYTHING is simply 'an option in a clothing system'. They let me down in the sense that they do not work as advertised, at least for me. Yes, they are durable, but that is their only advantage over a simple wind shell. Â I know many, many people love these pants, and similar ones. Personally, I find them to be too wimpy for mountain use. I'll still use them for cragging, or other mild weather activities. Â IMO, these things suck as mountain clothing. Quote
erik Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 i would like to know the direct reason one is sooo concered with wind protection?? and also you claim there is better breathable materials out there?? well since goretex and all coated nylons are more of a farce and only are breathable in the first few months of real use i am wondering what you are talking about??? Â i betca alot wind blew up your ankles! Â Quote
cracked Posted August 13, 2003 Author Posted August 13, 2003 erik said: i would like to know the direct reason one is sooo concered with wind protection?? and also you claim there is better breathable materials out there?? well since goretex and all coated nylons are more of a farce and only are breathable in the first few months of real use i am wondering what you are talking about??? Â i betca alot wind blew up your ankles! Â Â cause wind makes me cold. Duh. What works better are microfiber softshells, stuff like the Marmot Driclime series, Patagonia KruShell, or Golite Bark. Stretchwovens and goretex aren't the only fabrics out there... Quote
erik Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 cracked said: erik said: i would like to know the direct reason one is sooo concered with wind protection?? and also you claim there is better breathable materials out there?? well since goretex and all coated nylons are more of a farce and only are breathable in the first few months of real use i am wondering what you are talking about??? Â i betca alot wind blew up your ankles! Â Â cause wind makes me cold. Duh. What works better are microfiber softshells, stuff like the Marmot Driclime series, Patagonia KruShell, or Golite Bark. Stretchwovens and goretex aren't the only fabrics out there... Â thx dad! Â Quote
iain Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 so are the new 'gucci talus pants the same material as the guide pants now  hilarious how these companies have convinced people to once again buy polyester pants, and for ludicrous prices Quote
Rodchester Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 (edited) I have an older Moonstoone windshirt that is a Gore Activent product (on a thin nylon ripstop material). It weighs about 5 ozs. and is is very wind proof, very water resistent, and very lightweight. Granted, it would shred if you used the material on pants, but for a windshirt is is somewhere between a hard shell and a softshell, it rocks and I love it. Â Â I also have a Patagucci Krushell and I have used it about 10 times now, from mountaineerring on Rainier to alpine rock in the Tetons. It is very wind resistent, but not very water resistent. I think it is a great piece with somewhat limited applications. Â When alpine rock climbing I usually wear (or take along) a pair of nylon pants (non-coated) for wind resistence. Â I have never really used any of the schoeller (or similar materials) because I find them to be on the heavy side (and not cheap either ). Â I can seewhere they (Schoeller pants) would be good at the crag, and even alright in the mountains. But if it is just another piece to carry, and my present system works, is cheaper, resists wind better, and is lighter....what is the benefit? Â Not saying it is junk, just that I don't see a clear benefit. Â Edited August 13, 2003 by Rodchester Quote
cj001f Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 iain said:hilarious how these companies have convinced people to once again buy polyester pants, and for ludicrous prices And how much did the good doctor shell out for his last Prana beanie? Or that last stylie S7 tee? Quote
Dustin_B Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 I have the guide pants and love them (but only for the spring and fall). Soft shells are no good for summer, to hot. I pretty much only wear light nylon zipoff pants for summer. I've never had a problem with the wind resistance of the guide pants as it blocks just enough to take the edge off. I have had water soak through from sitting on the snow . Softshells have their place and that is not in summer. Â And cragging during the summer in a softshell?? Whats up with that?? Quote
cj001f Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 iain said: The doc shelled out a fair bit, to be sure  Sounds like the doc should seak treatment for that addiction - possibly a bit of trad groveling? Quote
Ursa_Eagle Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 I've used some tan REI mistral pants (Schoeller Dynamic) all summer, and they're awesome. They keep me warm in the morning when it's cool, fairly cool when the sun is beating down on me, I can grind up/down rock and glissade down snow without worrying about wrecking them, and they're super comfortable on top of all of that. Gotta have a light color for summer climbing though, why did REI discontinue the tan? Quote
texplorer Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 I like my Carhardt's. They are heavy, soak up water like a mutha, dry about as fast as christmas, shrink and fade with every wash, but they look cool. If you climb real cracks though they are the shizzle. Â I am proudly a member of CFC (Climber's for Carhardts) Quote
Dru Posted August 13, 2003 Posted August 13, 2003 Tex, Mary from Carhartt's just sent me a PM complaining about how the company sponsors you but you can't even spell your sponsors name right! They are gonna cut you off. Then all you will be left with is Mercury and SnaffyGu for sponsors. You're gonna look silly pulling up to ther crag and jumping out of your Cougar with nothing but SnaffyGu stickers covering your nether extremities. Â You also forgot to mention how rad Carhartt's are for mixed climbing. Did you know Ben Firth sent M12 wearing Carhartt's? In fact I heard this send will be prominently mentioned at the Carhartt's booth at the OR show. You can't miss the booth.Its right near the entrance between the SnaffyGu booth (the one with the booth babes in furry suits) and the BAT (Beckey Alpine Technology) "Spooner" 1.5 man Bivi bag test chamber. Quote
Beck Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 ...I hear Teddy Ruxpin'll be pimpin at the OR show for a competitor to carhartts in the outdoor industry; A German company, Varmit Montane. In response to their contrymans amazing interest in american wild west culture, Varmit Montane is showing soft shell chaps made out of 100% buckskin- I'm suprised, Tex, you hadn't heard of these guys, they're pretty new. Â and a big plus is, they'll serve you well at the 'wet bars' on Castro Street or Miami's South Beach when you're not climbing! Quote
marylou Posted August 17, 2003 Posted August 17, 2003 Beck, I'm just heartbroken I didn't run into you on the floor at the show this weekend. It would have given you an opportunity to call me names in public! Quote
cracked Posted September 10, 2003 Author Posted September 10, 2003 I have to retract my previous statements. The patagonia Guide pants totally rock, I'm wearing them right now. Nothing comes close to them....for walking around campus. MUCH better than my old jeans. I think I'll get another pair with a bigger logo when school starts, all the chicks will dig it! Quote
iain Posted September 11, 2003 Posted September 11, 2003 I love how the PDA and cellphone fit just so in the side pocket. Quote
JayB Posted September 11, 2003 Posted September 11, 2003 Still wishing you were my size so I could buy those things off you cheap. Mine are just about toast after 3 years of heavy use. If you own a softshell and are dissatisfied with their performance and want to wash your hands of them, and you have a 32" waist and a 32" inseam, send me a PM and I will help you dispose of them in a most efficacious manner. Â Anyone who is really more comfortable skinning their way up a long slope, or lugging a pack in on a long snowy approach in hard-shell pants should be checked for hypothyroidism or some other metabolic disorder IMO. Ditto for cognitive disorders in folks who have concluded that hardshell clothing is more versatile than softshell clothing. Quote
cj001f Posted September 11, 2003 Posted September 11, 2003 cracked said: I have to retract my previous statements. The patagonia Guide pants totally rock, I'm wearing them right now. Nothing comes close to them....for walking around campus. MUCH better than my old jeans. I think I'll get another pair with a bigger logo when school starts, all the chicks will dig it! Kids today! Â Don't even know how to gape properly! It's The North Face you want. Â DFA - didn't you buy a pair of the Cloudveil bouldering shorts with the cellphone pocket? http://www.cloudveil.com/sproducts/scsh.shtml Quote
JayB Posted September 11, 2003 Posted September 11, 2003 BTW - Anyone out there have any experience with Schoeller WB 400? Trying to decide between that and the Dryskin Extreme for the new winter pants to replace the Guide Pants with. I have heard that the WB 400 is a bit less breathable and a bit more wind resistant than the Dryskin Extreme, but wonder if the fabric will be breathable enough for high output activities. Â I found a chart which shows WB-400 with even worse breathability than Goretex, which I thought was impossible unless you are wearing a hefty-sack. The fabric has recieved some good reviews elsewhere, so if anyone has any experience - good or bad - with the fabric go ahead and chime in.... Â Relative Breathability of Textiles Used in the Outdoor Biz Quote
cracked Posted September 11, 2003 Author Posted September 11, 2003 I'd gape in TNF, but Patagucci is all I've got, so there go my chances of being cool. Oh, well. Â As for WB-400, it seems to be extremely similar to Powershield. I want to know where the data in that breathablility PDF comes from, since I doubt that it's true. You can force air through WB-400, unlike Goretex. So its pores are larger, it HAS to be more breathable. So I call bullshit on the chart. I suspect it would be very, very warm compared to other softshells. But what do I know, I don't even like the Guide pants. Â I think I'll join Distel in bouldering, then I don't have to worry about all this gear nonsense. Quote
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