willstrickland Posted February 7, 2002 Posted February 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by erik: simplify the route, like drul saud break it down into smaller parts....when i am leading a route i only look at the immediate, where is the next piece what moves does it take to get there.....i do not ask myself wether or not i can make, cause i know i can...even if i am at my limit....visualize success not faliure.... This is great advice. I started climbing much better when I would figure out the stances and gear placements from the ground or the stance I was on and climb "stance to stance". Obviously this doesn't work well on sustained cracks, but even there you can typically find some foothold on the face, a stem or something. When climbing down in Johnny's neck of the woods, there are typically stances/rests on every climb. I try to fire in good gear at a stance and climb through to the next stance (or locker jam) before placing any more gear. If the gear was small, or the distance between stances large, I'd double up on pro and eq them. Actually last summer on some route at Beacon I plugged two TCUs within about a foot of each other and ran it out to the anchor. My partner actually gave me shit about it. Hey, whatever man...I do it my way, you do it yours..if it makes me climb better/smarter great. For me personally, doubled up gear is a great confidence booster, I'm much more likely to not think of the consequences of falling if I've got good gear. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 7, 2002 Posted February 7, 2002 I agree with Will I double up on a specific crack in the same spot every time I lead it. There's a stiff move then it eases but if I was to fall there it would be an bad injury fall if my gear ripped. I dont place anything below it.... Quote
Matt_Anderson Posted February 7, 2002 Posted February 7, 2002 If, by luck, you have common sense and a talent at placing protection (both so it won't come out and so it stops you fom decking/etc even if it does stay put): NO. If you don't: YES. Consequences range from wetting one's pants to death. That said, it takes a huge amount of judgment that can't possibly be gained from merely clipping bolts. Usual warnings . . . . yadda yadda yadda Quote
Rafael_H Posted February 7, 2002 Posted February 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Gordonb: I don't have any fear of falling (I get lots and lots of practice), but I have not done any trad climbs. Will my casual attitude to falling get me in trouble when I start doing trad climbs? (in two weeks at Smith) As a sport climber I have a lot of confidence in my protection. As long as your pro is good... If you have a casual attitude to falling and no knowledge of placing pro - trouble awaits, otherwise it is actually easier, as many have said, you can "saw up" cracks. My friend sometimes puts two cams in cases where they point straight up (think Zebra). Quote
Rafael_H Posted February 8, 2002 Posted February 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Gordonb: What do you guys mean by it is best never to fall? If you always climb with the idea that you can't fall how do you advance and try new skills? I am new to climbing and I expect to be falling a lot while I am working on technique, and I do. I do almost all my climbing on TR right now. If I started out with the idea that I couldn't fall then I would be stuck on 5.7s. I know that many of you would NEVER be seen on a bolted sport climb, so how do you push the limits of your skills? Or are you that are the deriding sport climbers the same ones that are hanging (and I mean hanging) around Vertical World complaining about the route grades? Right on Gordon! I haven't found a solution to the fear problem but getting used to falling on a good, bomber pro (bolt) is definitely helpful. Start leading though, even one route is good. As you start progressing through the grades on top-rope it will be harder and harder to do marginal moves on lead if your mind is not conditioned to that. How do "bolt complainers" progress? Easy, in their (wishful) dreams! As to the original issue, I think there are two ways to combat fear: directly commanding your body and mind or by fooling its defenses with chemistry, testosteron boosting, concentrating on something very limited in scope like the current or next move, repetition, etc.The first method is hard, I doubt many (posibly none) climbers use it. But I know some people that come somewhat close.My guess is that for an average case, me included, it would be the most effective to use repetition and "psyching". I just started to ski and am scared of the speed, but I see those kids, barely the height of my knee zip by... The more you do (climbing to the limit and falling) and the earlier you start, the better can you cope with the fear of falling.The extreme ends of total control and total "switch off" with drugs are more rare and harder to achive (or live with in case of drugs) in my opinion. In my case the funny thing is that I used to be able to "psyche" myself (w/music, "I'll show them" and what not) but cannot anymore because I find it to be rather pathetic means, but I haven't replaced that with anything. Not yet, anyway. Quote
Gordonb Posted February 8, 2002 Posted February 8, 2002 I don't have any fear of falling (I get lots and lots of practice), but I have not done any trad climbs. Will my casual attitude to falling get me in trouble when I start doing trad climbs? (in two weeks at Smith) As a sport climber I have a lot of confidence in my protection. Quote
nolanr Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 Gordon, I have fallen off many times when TRing. That's when I push my limits to improve my technical ability. When I'm leading a trad route, I do it with the idea that falling is not an option. Hasn't happened yet. I don't pretend to be a great climber, I'm not out doing really hard routes. But it's plenty challenging and stimulating. I don't do a whole lot of cragging, I'm more into alpine rock routes. Quote
Dr.Hook Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 I have tried numerous techniques in an attempt to control the mind riot of running it out over trad gear. The only thing I have found to work is a quote I heard from Barry Blanchard when he was asked what he does when he gets scared (which I am sure is rarely) and his reply was, move upwards. I found that when I feel the voices coming on I just convince myself to move up a move or two and it takes my mind off the whipper potential. Quote
wrench Posted February 27, 2002 Posted February 27, 2002 gordon, ditto on rafael & matt's comments. after you experience both ends of the spectrum this will make a lot of sense: being absolutely paralyzed with fear even though the next move ain't that tough, but you know that your last pro was a manky piece of shit (read: learning curve); versus feeling loose and strong even though you're at the crux because you're confident your last piece was bomber. Quote
allison Posted February 27, 2002 Posted February 27, 2002 You know, it's funny for me to hear of someone being afraid of the speed from skiing. It would never occur to me that there's anything bad or scary about any aspect of skiing. I am acrophobic and the lifts never bother me. The part that's compelling is that I have been skiing since I was five, when I knew no fear. I started climbing when I was 29, and there were plenty of things to be afraid of. Now since I've busted myself up, I'm more scared. I have problems with the motorcycle too, and I've been riding for more than ten years. So....when we need to overcome stuff that sprouted up late on in life, then what? Quote
texplorer Posted February 27, 2002 Posted February 27, 2002 Gordon- my advice is follow. If you have already been doing this and feel good with your pro placements then you are ready. I too last year really started getting into leading trad at Smith. I'm not saying I'm an expert at placing gear but I found it not too difficult. There also seems to be this sense of reluctance of people to fall on gear. I have taken several falls on gear and even pulled a piece. If you are climbing hard falls will happen and maybe you'll even pull some gear. Protect early and often is a good mantra that has worked for me. I have missed climbing in the lower gorge this winter. That place rocks. Just remember that cracks are a whole different ball game. They are quite different than the sporty faces Smith is known for. You might already know this fact but because of the difference in styles of climbing a 5.10 trad crack like bloodclot or badfinger can be a gripping experience your first time on them. Good luck on your trad adventures. Quote
CleeshterFeeshter Posted February 27, 2002 Posted February 27, 2002 New to this thread but I seem to have the same problem as johnny except on the ice. I can not seem to get used to falling on stubbies in bad ice and wonder how to get over that problem. Anyone have suggestions? Quote
CleeshterFeeshter Posted February 27, 2002 Posted February 27, 2002 Forgot to metion that I have tried the yo-yoes/screamers but that doesnt seem to help Quote
erik Posted February 27, 2002 Posted February 27, 2002 quote: Originally posted by CleeshterFeeshter: New to this thread but I seem to have the same problem as johnny except on the ice. I can not seem to get used to falling on stubbies in bad ice and wonder how to get over that problem. Anyone have suggestions? sign up for a hotmail account, you will soon have all sorts of spam coming to you about how to help your stubbies in ice......viagara online seems to be quite popular...... that or clesster use your avc-23423vcr-4565ew-564-0001 and turn it to level randon4 and insert, you will become enlightend by the bright one!!!! Quote
Dru Posted February 27, 2002 Posted February 27, 2002 join Scientology they are big on mind control. except it is THEM controlling your mind not you controlling your own mind. Quote
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