Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 JoshK said: Cpt.Caveman said: Arguments about kids growing up in a stable environment with gay people is wrong. Kids should not have to grow up that way. I know several gay couples rasing kids and in every instance the child is getting much better parenting then plenty of "traditional" families I know. Being gay is = to being a criminal in the eyes of god to me. To justify it any other way as morally correct or normal is full of shit. Let them get married. If gay people want rights give them 80% off the price of vaseline and then get lost. How normal and better do you really know? Are you doing research that is unbiased? Do you follow these children on their every day life? Here I'll answer for you -NO Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 minx said: caveman, do you have kids? i agree that a child raised by gay parents might be ridiculed for it but it seems children always find a way to ridicule others. You ask questoins but bring nothing for argument with those lines of comment. I have lived with 4 kids over the past 8 years. Making an argument about kids finding other ways to respond back is just a bullshit sideways off the subject matter. Quote
snoboy Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Fairweather said:Does this mean that I am now free to marry a 12 year old girl? Or boy? Am I now free to marry my sister? First cousin? Apparently this isn't such a big deal... Just read an article about inbreeding in the latest issuue of Discover" magazine. Quote
minx Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 caveman, i can not make my point by arguing the moral aspect of this b/c you are clearly influenced by your religious beliefs. good on ya for sticking by your convictions but you seem like a practical sort. it seems a much better option to have two parents who have the desire,time and money to devote to a child than the circumstances that a lot of children experience. why not view two loving parents as a viable option? please don't frame a response based on your religious beliefs. we have no room for discussion there. simply be practical. 4 kids in 8 years...my you've been a stable influence in their lives eh? Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 snoboy said: Fairweather said:Does this mean that I am now free to marry a 12 year old girl? Or boy? Am I now free to marry my sister? First cousin? Apparently this isn't such a big deal... Just read an article about inbreeding in the latest issuue of Discover" magazine. IF it was up to some of these folks you could marry your mother and father and then collect benes from work. BTW rumor is that if you work at a certain REI that it is rampant with gay workers and them GAY workers discriminate against married heterosexual folks. Now lets open that can of worms hehe. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 minx said: caveman, i can not make my point by arguing the moral aspect of this b/c you are clearly influenced by your religious beliefs. good on ya for sticking by your convictions but you seem like a practical sort. it seems a much better option to have two parents who have the desire,time and money to devote to a child than the circumstances that a lot of children experience. why not view two loving parents as a viable option? please don't frame a response based on your religious beliefs. we have no room for discussion there. simply be practical. 4 kids in 8 years...my you've been a stable influence in their lives eh? First of all how do you know they were not roomates kids or tahat all 4 of them were not living with me for the entire time. You dont. Second of all I dont think 2 parents is better than one in many cases. I can love a 2 year old - but that doesnt qualify me to be a parent. Quote
minx Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 fair point...i don't know. actually i considered that and decided to fling forth w/it anyway. so what do you think of a single gay parent. and i 100% agree that sometimes, not often, 1 parent is better than 2. i can have a 2 yr old and it doesn't qualify me as a parent but that doesn't stop a lot of people from having them. there is no test to pass (ok maybe the EPT) to have kids (there should be!) Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 minx said: fair point...i don't know. actually i considered that and decided to fling forth w/it anyway. so what do you think of a single gay parent. and i 100% agree that sometimes, not often, 1 parent is better than 2. i can have a 2 yr old and it doesn't qualify me as a parent but that doesn't stop a lot of people from having them. there is no test to pass (ok maybe the EPT) to have kids (there should be!) I think any gay parenthood is not the right thing. If it was meant to be then the parents could breed one. I think I stated this several times. Making comments about "loving and caring" doesnt mean shit since those defninitions are often stretched. Quote
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Caveman...ability to breed does not in and of itself mean anything regarding parenthood... retards, imbeciles, rapists, thugs and on and on can all reproduce... your argument has squat to do w/ raising a child...for that matter, many grandparents who are now infertile due to age raise many of the nations children... Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 RuMR said: Caveman...ability to breed does not in and of itself mean anything regarding parenthood... retards, imbeciles, rapists, thugs and on and on can all reproduce... your argument has squat to do w/ raising a child...for that matter, many grandparents who are now infertile due to age raise many of the nations children... Agreed. But maybe you missed all the other comments and labeled me hater. Do you have a point. Quote
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Nope...never labeled you a hater...that would be e-rock... I think your point is that you disagree w/ the morality and you'll be damned if you are going to pay for benefits out of your pocket? is that right? My point is that if two people, regardless of orientation/race/etc., put the child/children first then they can be decent parents. Point in my book, probably only an opinion in yours...but to each their own... Quote
Off_White Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Cpt.Caveman said:Being gay is = to being a criminal in the eyes of god to me. The "what god wants" argument is used all over (in many religions) to justify all kinds of shit. I believe it's a rather popular argument in the Middle East these days. There's also a few of us atheists out there who would just as soon you kept your god to yourself. Caveman, you stated earlier that you don't believe in it and shouldn't have to pay for it (and I believe Sphinx seconded you on the sentiment). In what way do you pay for it? Do you mean if gay marriages got the same tax breaks that heterosexual marriages get? Ever know anyone who got married for the tax benefits? In fact, the Congressional Budget Office has declared that over 20 million couples pay MORE taxes by being married than they would as individuals. Ever hear of the Marriage Penalty? And hey, I have to pay for things I don't agree with all the time, what gives you special dispensation to pick and choose which particular programs your tax dollars go to? Kids shouldn't have to deal with having gay parents? Give me a break, the range of options for children to ostracize or torment each other is unlimited. Too tall, too short, too fat, too skinny, too smart, too stupid, too christian, not christian enough, black kids even get it from other black kids for being too dark AND too light. Are the children of gay parents more prone to emotional damage than the children of drunks or bitter divorces? While you may think its wrong, studies do not support your conclusions. You also argue that if they should have kids, they would be able to breed. So, then its okay for lesbian couples to have children? Artificial insemination is no big deal, heterosexual couples use it all the time. Your attempts at rational justification completely unravel when closely examined. Of course, your basic position of "they're not like me, I don't like them, they should be discriminated against" is irrefutable, its your opinion and you're entitled to it. What it doesn't confer is any kind of lock on "the truth." Finally, here's a dictionary definition for bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 There's also a few of us atheists out there who would just as soon you kept your god to yourself. ambe some people want you to keep your atheism to yourself... i hate both of you... bible thumpers and god-hating-atheists... Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Off white I think you know the asnwers to your dumb arguments. You bring in god but we DO Pay. I thought you were smarter than that. Your troll is weak. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Finally, here's a dictionary definition for bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Yeah and are you not a group Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Off_White said: I'm a gang of one, caveman. Yeah that's really evident. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Off_White said: I'm a gang of one, caveman. you wish... you are as generic as all the countless other clowns on here that ont believe in anything, but bash anyone with any convictions... kitten was as non-confrontational as can be about it and still caught flack... you are no more unique than the kids shopping at abercrombie... your niche is just "fringe" and theirs is "mainstream" its all what group you belong too... i have yet to meet the individual that defies categorization... except cavie... Quote
gregm Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Cpt.Caveman said: maybe you ... labeled me hater. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: Off_White said: I'm a gang of one, caveman. you wish... you are as generic as all the countless other clowns on here that ont believe in anything, but bash anyone with any convictions... kitten was as non-confrontational as can be about it and still caught flack... you are no more unique than the kids shopping at abercrombie... your niche is just "fringe" and theirs is "mainstream" its all what group you belong too... i have yet to meet the individual that defies categorization... except cavie... It's so simple to find a supposed flaw in someone being PC. That's what they view as the beauty of an argument but it usually proves (publicly or privately) that some of those arguments are just making them into hypocrites or retards. If you dont have any beliefs then you are just a liar. If you think you can force your beliefs on anyone then you are just a fool. I am trying neither. I am just a man with an opinion to express. Some of these responses really prove their own stupidity. But not all. You know who you are. At best the only responses I have seen from dirty off white are a combination of both. At least others have expressed otherwise. He has only proven his personal thoughts publicly to show that he is the fool. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 gregm said: Cpt.Caveman said: maybe you ... labeled me hater. Yeah what a jackass you are. Quote
Off_White Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 FS, she caught flack? Umm, aren't we in spray here? This is an argument and she opted out, as is her right. Do you think I expect to change your or Caveman's mind? Damn, I'm not that . BTW, a big to Fairweather. The 12-year old thing is a bit of a hoary red herring, since its understood we are discussing consenting adults, but his ethical position regarding an individual's right to freedom, even (perhaps especially) in the face of personal repugnance is laudable. Tell ya what Fairweather, you become a member of the ACLU and I'll register Libertarian. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Off_White said: FS, she caught flack? Umm, aren't we in spray here? This is an argument and she opted out, as is her right. Do you think I expect to change your or Caveman's mind? Damn, I'm not that . BTW, a big to Fairweather. The 12-year old thing is a bit of a hoary red herring, since its understood we are discussing consenting adults, but his ethical position regarding an individual's right to freedom, even (perhaps especially) in the face of personal repugnance is laudable. Tell ya what Fairweather, you become a member of the ACLU and I'll register Libertarian. Sign up soon. It wont be long I bet. There's plenty of BS from the ACLU that belongs down the toilet. If they had their word in law you would be so fucking twisted into laws you couldnt say the word Oriental to a vietnamese folk in view of racism and calling that person on a grand assumption that all orientals are the same. Quote
Dru Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 just like them bamboo babies down in the south sea tropic zone taint no sin to take off your skin and dance around in your bones Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Off_White said: FS, she caught flack? Umm, aren't we in spray here? This is an argument and she opted out, as is her right. Do you think I expect to change your or Caveman's mind? Damn, I'm not that . well brah... you self proclaimed atheists... say you hate it when people force theri religion on you and when they have their jesus fishes on their cars... but what about when you profess your blatent hatred of anything they stand for... you really cant argue this topic with them as their understanding of the issue is completely different from yours... this is similar to the way that we differ from teh muslims in their pursuit of a holy war... i dont understand how you get so angry about people believing in something you dont... like who cares right? if it is not real, but for them, it is offensive... you are calling something they love more than anything trash... why do you care? if you dont believe in it, how does it hurt you? just wonderin... Quote
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