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Backcountry

And who said all snowmobilers were bad...here's a handy avi ref card

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Talk about an avalanche poodle...should see what a snowmobile can do to cut a slope loose...with that aside...having participated in both side of the "fence" in snow...While we do have our tiffs, especially the Gold Creek sno-park grin.gif" border="0 Here something that came from a fellow snowmobiler:

This is a link to a handy card that shows the inclination and some reminders about avi safety...it's nothing too special but doesnt hurt to have around...

It's in .pdf form so you will need Adobe Acrobat to dl it.

Avi Ref Card

Play safe!!!

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I live in an area with over 350 miles of groomed snow-machine trails. There's also a large population of "backcountry" skiers who use the groomed trails for access and exercise.

I overheard some snowmobilers talking a few seasons ago, and their comments were enlightening. With regard to skiers, they said that "they always seem to be right in the middle of the trail when you come up to them." And skiers always complain about the noise and oil smoke. But both groups are out to enjoy the scenery and snow. Irony. These groups would be an even more powerful lobby to the relevant Goverment agencies if they combined forces.

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I suppose this is openingnup a can of worms that's already been re-heated, but...

I can't say anything about the snowmobile scene 'cause I haven't hung out with that crowd. But in the skier areana.. what a bunch of snobs! I'd agree that smoke and oil suck, but they definitely don't warrant the gibberish I hear out of some skiers. I think they're actually looking for something to complain about. I think it boils down to the skiers being a little high and mighty, I'm cooler than you 'cause "I earn my turns!" what ever.

rolleyes.gif" border="0

Maybe I just got more riled up over snobby skiers than the snobby skiers get riled over sledders. tongue.gif" border="0

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I get the upturned-nose bullshit from my freeheeling friends because I ride a board. They diss me because boarding is "easy". No shit, I say. And it's also a lot of fun.

The deal with snowmobilers is that they spend money --lots of it. And having them around helps out snow-machine dealers, restaurants, hotels, gas-stations and the whole county tax-base. They're not going away without a fight. So why not join them with the goal of having some trails groomed to accomodate skate-skiers too.

my rant's over.

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I personally enjoy snowmobilers. Yes, whenever I am out doing some biathlon training I enjoy seeing them around. That way instead of shooting at boring old static targets...I get some moving target practice. Actually I am just jealous cause some people won't invite me to go sledding (BACKCOUNTRY!)

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Hey that sounds like my idea of having a "full bore biathlon"

.308 / tele or at gear / in a snowmobiling area

Just greet all snowmob-idiots with a warm smile, a nod of the head, and a simple "Wire's up, have fun!"

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You're right on Max...Tele skiers are big-time snobs. Snow shoes rule the backcountry! I'd personally rather have a conversation with a snowmobiler that a tele-snob.

Isn't there something kind of sick when the tele-snobs right here in this room start talking about sniping/killing snowmobilers? It says something about their self proclaimed "tolerence". CharlesEvans...Can you actually own a .308cal rifle in SW BC?

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Why can’t they put a real engine in those snowmobiles?

You hear them for 1 minute and smell them for the next 15 !

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quote:

Originally posted by gearbot:
Why can’t they put a real engine in those snowmobiles?

You hear them for 1 minute and smell them for the next 15 !

The two-stroke engines don't completely burn fuel (typically, 15% is unburned and emitted in the exhaust). It's very possible to make a less noisy and more fuel efficient engine. Outboard engines have historically had the same complaints as snow-machines, but in recent years Honda came out with a line of powerful and quiet four-stroke outboards. Their reliability, fuel economy, and quietness are giving them greater market share. So far, no company is doing the same with the sleds. But, then again, the target consumer may not want a quiet, smoke-free snow-machine. Personally, I'd rather hear from a long way off that something is hurtling my way at 50-70mph. Outside of market pressure, the only way to affect change is with regulation --not going to happen since it would be misconstrued as being lefty. Just make it cool to have a clean and quiet sled, and you're set.

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quote:

Originally posted by max:
I suppose this is openingnup a can of worms that's already been re-heated, but...

I can't say anything about the snowmobile scene 'cause I haven't hung out with that crowd. But in the skier areana.. what a bunch of snobs! I'd agree that smoke and oil suck, but they definitely don't warrant the gibberish I hear out of some skiers. I think they're actually looking for something to complain about. I think it boils down to the skiers being a little high and mighty, I'm cooler than you 'cause "I earn my turns!" what ever.

rolleyes.gif" border="0

Maybe I just got more riled up over snobby skiers than the snobby skiers get riled over sledders.
tongue.gif" border="0

Max- The sled crowd is more Redneck than the skiers, who tend to be more yuppified. Sledders drink beer outta the can, smoke big cigars and like women with big tits. Annorexics need not apply. I know all this to be true, because I have two sleds and have "hung" with the crowd for years. We have nothing against any climbers, hikers, skiers, or anybody else. Believe me, the last thing we want to do is run some poor bastard down. It's just that sometimes it's a bitch to maneuver in time at 90mph. I was up snowshoeing at Baker a couple weekends ago, and was almost run over countless times by the "boarders" not the "skiers". Not trying to pick on boarders here either, just mentioning that they seem to push the envelope, other folks be damned.

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Freeclimb9: This year Yamaha has introduced a marketable sled using a four stroke engine borrowed from thier R1 street bikes...We'll see...However, each year, SAE.org and several other organizations and corporations sponsor the Clean Snowmobile challenge...Last years winner...A two stroke...They can be cleaner, which requires more money, which the consumer will not support. The two stroke engine is THE choice for snowmobile applications. The power to wgt ratio and simple design make it such. The four strokes have and are coming along. Give it a couple years and sleds will be where the outboards are.

HALLING!!! As for you dip-wap...I'd be happy to drag your ass behind my sled at about 90mph...Saw some ice up at Snoqualime a few weekends ago that you might be interested in...I can tow ya in if you'd like...Now that I am officially unemployed I hope to enjoy some of the diversions that I had not been able to in the past...

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FAIRWEATHER...what tele-snobs were talking about killing snowmobilers? What I find sick are people who can't take a joke. I don't tele...and my post was a joke to my friend Backcountry. Chill....or the dogs of war will refocus their gaze....and it won't be a joke.

PANTHER...I still hate you.

BACKCOUNTRY....I have always told you I would like to race you downhill...board vs. sled. Fool I've been asking you for years to be my backcountry taxi service. As for dip-wap...you will pay...

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Good Snowmobiler... anyone with a machine that will tow me into the BC

Bad Snowmobiler... anyone with a machine that won't give me a tow.

wink.gif" border="0

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I was talking to the "historian" in Wrangell/ St Elias Park a couple of summers ago and he told me a couple of snowmobilers out of Glenallen made it to within 300 feet of the summit of Mount Snaford (16,237')in winter of '99. I guess one of their machines broke down, but they were able to tow it out on their own.

As Wrangell has less restrictive rules/regs regarding a number of issues, this activity was perfectly legal. I say "no problem".

The 4 stroke snow machine would be easier on the lungs, but I understand the torque generated is substantially less than 2 stroke?? And anyway, the tele-snobs would complain no matter what! Even if snow machines operated on cold fusion, generated zero decibels, left no track behind them, and were emission-free.....the tele-snobs would still bitch. They just don't play well with others.

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I was cross-country skiing on Sat. on some multi-use forest roads and was passed by many snowmobiles all day. The noise I could live with because you could hear them coming down the road and get out of the way. This was especially nice after the sun went down; we were a little late getting back to the cars. But the smell! In the valley sections where there was not much wind, you could smell the exhaust for a full 10 minutes after the machine had past. It was like putting your head in a bag of oil and gas and walking around.

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That's the way of the carburated/efi 2 stroke. With the new direct injected 2 stroke technology filtering into the snow machine venue, things will be getting cleaner, and quieter, and more fuel efficient. The new direct injected 2 stroke outboard motors are phenominal. They're so good in fact, that there is little viable reason to pursue the 4 stroke alternative.

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