Alpinfox Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I thought of this question while reading another thread about an "Indexish" 5.9 at Squamish. I'd be interested in hearing where various climbing areas fall on the sandbag scale. Here is my pathetic attempt to start a scale, most sandbags to least. Please edit/adjust/comment Index, WA Squamish, BC Leavenworth, WA Smith Rock, OR Exit32/38, WA Red Rocks, NV Obviously this is going to be difficult because of sport vs. trad, new climbs vs. old, etc... but let's see what happens. Quote
sobo Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Ever been to Seneca Rocks, West Virginia? RuMR, RobBob, and ryland: back me up, here! Quote
Figger_Eight Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Stick J-Tree towards the top of that list Quote
Dru Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 maybe you should climb some Culbert routes alpinchimp. or some Hank Mather routes like Pavilion Edge Quote
Alpinfox Posted July 15, 2003 Author Posted July 15, 2003 sobo said: Ever been to Seneca Rocks, West Virginia? One of my partners climbed there a bunch before moving out here and has told me some stories about some very taxing "5.9" climbs there. A strict linear order is probably unattainable, so how about rough groupings: Stiff: Seneca, WV Index, WA Joshua Tree, CA Squamish, BC About right: Leavenworth, WA Smith Rock, OR Soft: Vantage, WA Exit32/38, WA Red Rocks, NV Quote
catbirdseat Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I would move Exit 32 up on the scale relative to Exit 38. Quote
pope Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Here's the scale as I see it (from full-value sandbag to grades so easy you think you're climbing in a reduced gravitational field): Yosemite Joshua Tree Leavenworth (old school, as in Castle Rock/Midnight) Index Squamish Smith Leavenworth (any slab bolted since 1985) Ronald McDonald Play Land My favorite bar stool Exit 32/ 38/ anything along I-90 Quote
pope Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Dru said: squamish is stiff Yeah, I broke a rib laughing at that one. There are 5.10 routes in Squamish that would check in at solid 5.8 in Yosemite. Quote
RuMR Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 sobo said: Ever been to Seneca Rocks, West Virginia? RuMR, RobBob, and ryland: back me up, here! Ummm....seneca is sandbag central Quote
RuMR Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Alpinfox said: sobo said: Ever been to Seneca Rocks, West Virginia? One of my partners climbed there a bunch before moving out here and has told me some stories about some very taxing "5.9" climbs there. A strict linear order is probably unattainable, so how about rough groupings: Stiff: Seneca, WV Index, WA Joshua Tree, CA Squamish, BC About right: Leavenworth, WA Smith Rock, OR Soft: Vantage, WA Exit32/38, WA Red Rocks, NV you trad geeks flippin' kill me...why don't you try some of the harder routes up at 32 and then come tell me about how ez they were for the grade... oh, squamish --> soft in general... Quote
pope Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 RuMR said: you trad geeks flippin' kill me...why don't you try some of the harder routes up at 32 and then come tell me about how ez they were for the grade... oh, squamish --> soft in general... I went out to Exit 32 and and flashed something about five letter grades above my limit. I spent the rest of the day climbing at or a couple of grades above my limit and flashed everything I tried. At Smith one year I climbed my hardest route of the season with a bowline instead of a harness. Let's face it: these areas are soft. Quote
RuMR Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 (edited) i'm not sayin' they're not soft in the low grades...they are a complete joke...but that is not what WW1/2 is known for... But why don't you come up and try some of the really stiff routes at ww1...and then we can discuss the "appropriateness" of the ratings... Oh...and that smiff route musta been a real toughy?! What was the route please??? Shit like rainy day and crap like that doesn't count...that wall/rating doesn't begin to get right until 12+/.13- ratings... Edited July 15, 2003 by RuMR Quote
JayB Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I'd put Veduawoo WY and the South Platte in CO on the stiff list. Eldorado Canyon too. Pretty much every area where most of the routes were put up when 5.9-5.10 were the highest grades is going to be fairly stiff, if no one has upped the grades over time. Quote
pope Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 RuMR said: i'm not sayin' they're not soft in the low grades...they are a complete joke...but that is not what WW1/2 is known for... But why don't you come up and try some of the really stiff routes at ww1...and then we can discuss the "appropriateness" of the ratings... Oh...and that smiff route musta been a real toughy?! What was the route please??? Shit like rainy day and crap like that doesn't count...that wall/rating doesn't begin to get right until .13- ratings... I can't remember the names. It was 5.11d....no, not really. It was advertised 5.11d. It sure seemed easier but what do I know. I'm sure the 5.13's at Exit 32 are difficult. Since I can't flash those grades, I generally avoid them, and I wouldn't be able to compare them to 5.13's at another venue. How do you sport-monkeys measure the difficulty of a particular 5.13? How many weeks it takes to aid....oops, I mean, "work" the moves? Quote
pope Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 JayB said: I'd put Veduawoo WY and the South Platte in CO on the stiff list. Eldorado Canyon too. Pretty much every area where most of the routes were put up when 5.9-5.10 were the highest grades is going to be fairly stiff, if no one has upped the grades over time. Dude, that image thing...which character are you? Quote
RuMR Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 (edited) pope said: RuMR said: i'm not sayin' they're not soft in the low grades...they are a complete joke...but that is not what WW1/2 is known for... But why don't you come up and try some of the really stiff routes at ww1...and then we can discuss the "appropriateness" of the ratings... Oh...and that smiff route musta been a real toughy?! What was the route please??? Shit like rainy day and crap like that doesn't count...that wall/rating doesn't begin to get right until .13- ratings... How do you sport-monkeys measure the difficulty of a particular 5.13? How many weeks it takes to aid....oops, I mean, "work" the moves? Ok...the burdo grades are off easily by a factor of 2 -3 letter grades...but that's brian...and he wrote the guide book and pumped his own routes... hahahaha...there's ez aid and there's bitch hard aid right? How's bout maybe when you're "working" or aiding or pussifying (or whatever term you choose to use for getting through) the move your tendon blows????? Maybe you lose 4 months to a year of hard climbing (or aiding in your world )...would that be consider hard or just a little tough? And often times working these routes is on lead on the "wussy" bolt (because the pitch is too long for topropes, etc., sorry dwayner) , even though you facing 35 to 40 foot whips each time you try a wrong "aid" move...granted, its on bolts, its overhanging, etc. etc. etc. but its easy to just rip an effort from the couch... you guys crack me up...shit, whoohoo walk some stupid .11 and then slander the place and duck the ball by saying "ahh gee, i'm not going to work/aid/lower myself to try some of the really stellar climbing there, cuz its just too hard"... fucking a kill me... Edited July 15, 2003 by RuMR Quote
RuMR Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 ahh this is a pointless debate, i'm going to bed... if you want to come up and check/aid/climb some REALLY COOL SHIT THAT'S SUPER fun w/ big falls and clean air, i'll be stoked to show you irregardless of what you and i might think the rating really is!!! goodnight pope Quote
pope Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 OK, potty mouth, I guess we're talking apples and oranges. I climb a 5.11d (which at the time should have been over my limit) on-sight with a bowline on my ass and you're not impressed. Fine. You're invited to emulate. I'm not saying that, from a sport-monkey's perspective, the climbing along I-90 is poor, and I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishments (I just don't understand all of the effort for 90 feet of rock). I'm simply saying that I've been pleasantly surprised by how well I climbed the advertised grades at the few sport cliffs I've visited (and Ronald McDonald Play Land). Quote
RuMR Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 (edited) pope said: OK, potty mouth, I guess we're talking apples and oranges. I climb a 5.11d (which at the time should have been over my limit) on-sight with a bowline on my ass and you're not impressed. Fine. You're invited to emulate. I'm not saying that, from a sport-monkey's perspective, the climbing along I-90 is poor, and I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishments (I just don't understand all of the effort for 90 feet of rock). I'm simply saying that I've been pleasantly surprised by how well I climbed the advertised grades at the few sport cliffs I've visited (and Ronald McDonald Play Land). sorry i offended your tender ears, it was in response to the term "sport monkey", somewhat insulting...as you said, most likely not .11d...Try to hear what i was saying...the place was made for steeper hard climbing (i know hard is relative)...ratings under mid 12 are a joke there...no one's arguing that... And it is Ronald McDonald Play land...You ever have any fun as a kid????? That's what its for... Just editing...guess i flung first insult w/ "trad geek"...my bad... Edited July 15, 2003 by RuMR Quote
Alpinfox Posted July 15, 2003 Author Posted July 15, 2003 Update: Stiff: Yosemite, CA Seneca, WV Veduawoo, WY Eldorado Canyon, CO South Platte, CO Index, WA Joshua Tree, CA Leavenworth, WA (old stuff) About right: Leavenworth, WA (New Stuff) Smith Rock, OR Squamish, BC Exit 32, WA (Little Si) Soft: Vantage, WA Exit 38, WA Red Rocks, NV Where do Darrington, Skaha, Tieton go? How about Rifle, CO or Red River Gorge, KY? I've heard that old school east coast stuff (Rumney, Cathedral Ledge) is pretty stiff. Any opinions? Quote
erik Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 yose and index are on par, the rest is just practice. Quote
Dru Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 i have some quality routes for those who think squamish is soft to try! Quote
AlpineK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I thought Eldo was hard till I'd climbed there a while, then it didn't seem so bad. I think getting used to the non granite takes a little time. Veedawoo is pretty god dam hard. Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Alpinfox said: Update: Stiff: Yosemite, CA Seneca, WV Veduawoo, WY Eldorado Canyon, CO South Platte, CO Index, WA Joshua Tree, CA Leavenworth, WA (old stuff) About right: Leavenworth, WA (New Stuff) Smith Rock, OR Squamish, BC Exit 32, WA (Little Si) Soft: Vantage, WA Exit 38, WA Red Rocks, NV Where do Darrington, Skaha, Tieton go? How about Rifle, CO or Red River Gorge, KY? I've heard that old school east coast stuff (Rumney, Cathedral Ledge) is pretty stiff. Any opinions? Fox - One thing came to mind when reviewing your list. How can the number of stiff areas be twice the number of "about right" areas? What is also odd is that the areas in the stiff section are for the most part areas with a long history. Ratings are simply funky for example someone recently posted beta about how the first pitch of Liberty Crack has a couple of 11a moves on it. I thought was middle 5.10. PP Quote
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