erik Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 MATTP HAS PICS OF DWAYNER CLIMBING DREAMER!! WHICH IS A SPORT ROUTE!!!! Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 RuMR said: Fence_Sitter said: RuMR said: hhhhmmm My name is Dwayner aka theGrandmasterTradIcouldClimbHarderthanUif'nIworkedAsLongAsYouOnthatRoute... I also could run a sub 3:40 mile if i really really focused and trained and dedicated myself to it...shoot, those olympic guys are wusses...now where's that beer (Only mickey's fo' me) and my remote control...gotta catch richard simmon's latest workout... no you couldn't... believe me... i was down under 4:20 and they said i would never get much below 4:00... ever... only a very select few can.... 5.13? probably, but 5.15 ne eh there is a difference anyone can run say 4:30, but not under 4:00... everyon can climb 5.13 but not 5.15... (obvious qualifiers on everyone) I think you missed my sarcasm by a MILE...and I don't think that many will be climbing 5.13+... My point was that its piss ez to sit back and say that "BLAH blah blah, given enough time, wiring moves, blah blah blah I could do it too, blah blah blah..." than to actually go out and do it...another way of saying the proof is in the pudding... yeah but dwayner's statement was possible and your's wasn't 5.13 is waaaaaaaaay the fuck easier than 3:40 Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 Sport climbing will always be vital and meaningful to whomever appreciates it. Beyond that, any qualms about its cultural or societal relevance fade into insignificance. PP Quote
erik Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Peter_Puget said: Sport climbing will always be vital and meaningful to whomever appreciates it. Beyond that, any qualms about its cultural or societal relevance fade into insignificance. PP Quote
Dwayner Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 (edited) Peter_Puget said: Sport climbing will always be vital and meaningful to whomever appreciates it. Beyond that, any qualms about its cultural or societal relevance fade into insignificance. PP How about it's environmental relevance? Furthermore...I would hardly call "Dreamer" a sport-climb. I recall widely-spaced bolts that seemed to have been placed with discretion and a lot of crack! Additionally, whether or not I've climbed a thousand sport-routes or none, it doesn't detract from the fundamental issues. Erik must think this is a personal hypocricy debate rather than an issues discussion. Edited July 9, 2003 by Dwayner Quote
Dumpster_Diver Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 How could someone just hang from a bolt time and time again and call that climbing?!??! It's called hangdogging and is totally boring to me. Even if I am hanging off of cams it's the same shit. How can you allow yourself to let it be ok to fall?!?!??! It's ok to fall if you know what you are getting into or what the dangers are. But normally I just do it in 3 or 4 tries ground up or come back another day. Yes I do believe my approach is more pure. But that doesn't mean someone else can't do what they want. How can you take the risk to go well beyond your limits on lead?!?!? Climb more. Be willing to take falls. Be willing to run it out if you have good protection and it is safe. If you can't tell climb some more. Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: RuMR said: Fence_Sitter said: RuMR said: hhhhmmm My name is Dwayner aka theGrandmasterTradIcouldClimbHarderthanUif'nIworkedAsLongAsYouOnthatRoute... I also could run a sub 3:40 mile if i really really focused and trained and dedicated myself to it...shoot, those olympic guys are wusses...now where's that beer (Only mickey's fo' me) and my remote control...gotta catch richard simmon's latest workout... no you couldn't... believe me... i was down under 4:20 and they said i would never get much below 4:00... ever... only a very select few can.... 5.13? probably, but 5.15 ne eh there is a difference anyone can run say 4:30, but not under 4:00... everyon can climb 5.13 but not 5.15... (obvious qualifiers on everyone) I think you missed my sarcasm by a MILE...and I don't think that many will be climbing 5.13+... My point was that its piss ez to sit back and say that "BLAH blah blah, given enough time, wiring moves, blah blah blah I could do it too, blah blah blah..." than to actually go out and do it...another way of saying the proof is in the pudding... yeah but dwayner's statement was possible and your's wasn't 5.13 is waaaaaaaaay the fuck easier than 3:40 Yeah...it is...but hey, you got to have some hyperbole to get your point across... Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Dumpster_Diver said: How could someone just hang from a bolt time and time again and call that climbing?!??! It's called hangdogging and is totally boring to me. Even if I am hanging off of cams it's the same shit. How can you allow yourself to let it be ok to fall?!?!??! It's ok to fall if you know what you are getting into or what the dangers are. But normally I just do it in 3 or 4 tries ground up or come back another day. Yes I do believe my approach is more pure. But that doesn't mean someone else can't do what they want. How can you take the risk to go well beyond your limits on lead?!?!? Climb more. Be willing to take falls. Be willing to run it out if you have good protection and it is safe. If you can't tell climb some more. Well spoken... Quote
Stefan Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Dumpster_Diver said: Climb more. Be willing to take falls. Be willing to run it out if you have good protection and it is safe. If you can't tell climb some more. I would take hangdogging over falls anyday. I just couldn't handle the thought of all that stress on my rope... Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Since Timmy is taking longer than expected with the NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM , I have decided to chime in again. Dwayner quote: The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head. By combining two issues you make a mess of your argument and make your motivations suspect. “Unlimited rehearsal” to wire climbs is an age old practice that predates the dawn of sport climbing. Do you really mean to suggest that excessive (what ever that is defined as) use of permanent anchors is ok without unlimited rehearsal. I think not. What upsets you seems to be both bolts and the style in which people climb. I can agree with your concerns about the former but as for the latter I can only say get a life! If someone hangdogs a route, pulls on every piece, flashes, or free solos a route my only concern for them is that I hope they have a safe and enjoyable climb. Now some of the harder sport routes at Si have seen a bunch of rehearsal but the use of bolts is nowhere near excessive (I am talking long falls for sure!) are these acceptable? Is this style acceptable? PP Quote
erik Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 speaking of si! we can sort out differences this coming monday! see you all at 4pm! i will be the weak fat kid shaking at the base! Quote
Attitude Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Peter_Puget said: Since Timmy is taking longer than expected with the NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM , I have decided to chime in again. PP Even better would be a NEW HANGDOGGING FORUM. Peetie Approved! Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Peter_Puget said: Since Timmy is taking longer than expected with the NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM , I have decided to chime in again. Dwayner quote: The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head. By combining two issues you make a mess of your argument and make your motivations suspect. “Unlimited rehearsal” to wire climbs is an age old practice that predates the dawn of sport climbing. Do you really mean to suggest that excessive (what ever that is defined as) use of permanent anchors is ok without unlimited rehearsal. I think not. What upsets you seems to be both bolts and the style in which people climb. I can agree with your concerns about the former but as for the latter I can only say get a life! If someone hangdogs a route, pulls on every piece, flashes, or free solos a route my only concern for them is that I hope they have a safe and enjoyable climb. Now some of the harder sport routes at Si have seen a bunch of rehearsal but the use of bolts is nowhere near excessive (I am talking long falls for sure!) are these acceptable? Is this style acceptable? PP Peter...you are a glutton for punishment...man, takin' on Dwayner?? Now that's gettin' in over your head...but maybe you can redpoint it w/ enuff work... Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 erik said: speaking of si! we can sort out differences this coming monday! see you all at 4pm! i will be the weak fat kid shaking at the base! oh...there will be a lot of weak fat kids there! I'll look for the wool knickers... Quote
erik Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 more of a support group for the hasbeen's and wannabe's eh?? Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Rumr - you've got to be kidding! But do you disagree with me? Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Kidding about what?? i agree w/ you...but dwayner will keep repeating his nonsensical mantra to the end! Quote
gapertimmy Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 me thinks a more exciting forum would be the PETEY VS DWAYNER 24/7 BATTLECAGE where this wonderful stuff could go on all week long. Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 good idea! - right after the rock forum and Dwayner's big wall chat room. Dwayner and I have not exchanged insults or been disrespectful. You goofballs should follow our lead! PP Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 actually to be fair to the stodgy dwayner, he has ALWAYS said that one is entitled to his/her opinion as he is to his... Quote
Dwayner Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Peter_Puget said: good idea! - right after the rock forum and Dwayner's big wall chat room. Dwayner and I have not exchanged insults or been disrespectful. You goofballs should follow our lead! PP Petey wrote: "I can agree with your concerns about the former [bolts] but as for the latter I can only say get a life! If someone hangdogs a route, pulls on every piece, flashes, or free solos a route my only concern for them is that I hope they have a safe and enjoyable climb." Au contraire, mon frere. "Get a life" is an insult. I don't care if you or anyone else hang-dogs...just don't tell me you're really up for the route or a "5.13" or whatever climber if you require that. - Dwayner Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 i don't think anyone here has claimed that they are a 5.13 climber, have they? i've redpointed some w/ a ton of work, and some w/ not so much, but i'd hardly call myself a 5.13 climber (or a 5.12 one or even a 5.11 one in a lot of arenas)... SO...My question to you is: "should i be forbidden from working a route that is "over" my head? What if i find that fun? To get on something, get completely shut down, go through a process to figger it out, and then do it w/ no falls?" And i still have no where claimed to be a "5.13" climber, or any other level at that... Based on what I am interpreting your thoughts as, I would guess I should have never gotten on anything beyond 5.7 cuz i got schooled real hard on the first one that i tried... Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Hmm.... well you might call it an insult but given the context in which we are posting I call bullshit on your claim. I do find it odd that you bother to attack me instead of my assertion that your argument is at best messy (see below). This evasion is even more odd after Rumr expressly agreed with my statements. I guess this is your tacit agreement that your argument is bogus. PP Copy and paste from earlier post in this thread: Dwayner quote: The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head. By combining two issues you make a mess of your argument and make your motivations suspect. “Unlimited rehearsal” to wire climbs is an age old practice that predates the dawn of sport climbing. Do you really mean to suggest that excessive (what ever that is defined as) use of permanent anchors is ok without unlimited rehearsal. I think not. What upsets you seems to be both bolts and the style in which people climb. I can agree with your concerns about the former but as for the latter I can only say get a life! If someone hangdogs a route, pulls on every piece, flashes, or free solos a route my only concern for them is that I hope they have a safe and enjoyable climb. Now some of the harder sport routes at Si have seen a bunch of rehearsal but the use of bolts is nowhere near excessive (I am talking long falls for sure!) are these acceptable? Is this style acceptable? Quote
Dwayner Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Petey now resorts to his old, mean self accompanied by the use of the word "bullshit"....how articulate. I thought you were more sophisticated. Frankly, this "discussion" is starting to bore me even more than the boring work I am required to do for which I thought this might be an occasional distraction. I'll tell you what, sparky, I'll do the gentlemanly thing and blame this on my inability to write and fully express myself rather than on the inability of you and your fellow sporty's to fully comprehend my points, although the latter is clearly the case. - Dwayner Quote
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