AlpineK Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 Every time I go to Index I see more and more trees I want to kill or at least prune back. I'm not sure if I'm actually motivated enough to hike around with a chainsaw, but the thought has crossed my mind several times. Removing and pruning would cut back on the dank mossy factor at the base of routes. So what do you think of that? Disclaimer: If you're a tree hugging hippie, I'm really not interested in listening to your crap. When it comes to trees there are two types of folks that suck ass; people who hate trees(consciously or unconsciously) and people who think all living things are sacred Quote
Sphinx Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 ALL LIVING THINGS ARE SACRED UNLESS I CAN EAT THEM! And why would you want to cut them down? Just because it's your profession... Quote
cracked Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 Hey, AlpineK, I was just out at Index for the first time today. It's a really nice area, and I liked the trees. Now, I'm not a hippie, and like Sphinx, if I can eat it, it can't be sacred. Leave the trees alone, I like the area the way it is. Quote
AlpineK Posted June 2, 2003 Author Posted June 2, 2003 There are only a few trees that need to die. Quote
AlpineK Posted June 2, 2003 Author Posted June 2, 2003 My prime example would be a couple of the big leaf maples at the base of Godzilla, and some of the vine maple by J gardens could be pruned back. Quote
ctuller Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 "These oaks are just too greedy; We will make them give us light." Quote
Szyjakowski Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 shut the fuq up k and just tie off to the trees like everyone else does...sheesh! Quote
AlpineK Posted June 2, 2003 Author Posted June 2, 2003 Up yours beotch, I'm just trying to improve the climbing in a previously (many times) altered environment. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 AlpineK said: Up yours beotch, I'm just trying to improve the climbing in a previously (many times) altered environment. no shit...its not like a former granite quarry is gonna be totally void of human impact... Quote
snoboy Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 (edited) [edit] I have never been to Index[/edit] I am a bit of a tree hugger, and I think most living things are sacred, but I was out killing Vine Maples at the crags here last w/e. I say don't log the shit out of it, but some selctive pruning can be good. I convinced my friend not to take down a couple of trees, and I went back and limbed them up with my pole pruner later. Most people won't even notice if you do a nice clean job. Oh, maybe we shouldn't take out any trees. No moss or ferns either. And of course we shouldn't drive out to Index or Squamish either, coz that would be bad for the plants too. Get over it, climbing is not ecofriendly. Just try to minimize the impact you have, coz climbing in a dustbowl sux. I would rather see on area extensively developed and a lot of wild areas than a whole bunch of half assed crags here and there. Rather someone like Kurt out there doing it than some hack who leaves a mess. Edited June 2, 2003 by snoboy Quote
Sphinx Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 You preach low impact, but advocate impact. Don't be stupid, the trees don't affect the routes significantly; why change it? Climbing is about the natural environment, if I want to climb in a gym, I'll go to Stone Gardens. Sure, climbers have some impact, but why make it worse. For the dumbfucks who argue about bolting, why the fuck aren't you defending the environment? Chopping down trees has FAR greater impacts than a few bolts. Not everything should be changed for our convenience, assholes. Leave some things alone. Quote
Sphinx Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 AlpineK said: Removing and pruning would cut back on the dank mossy factor at the base of routes. So what do you think of that? Disclaimer: If you're a tree hugging hippie, I'm really not interested in listening to your crap. When it comes to trees there are two types of folks that suck ass; people who hate trees(consciously or unconsciously) and people who think all living things are sacred Please, I really enjoy the trees, as well as the "dank mossy factor" at the base of the routes. Please leave it alone. And AlpineK, you seem to belong in the "hate" group you mentioned. I'm a realist, and not a tree hugger. Please acknowledge that. I just don't see the rational. Don't make more human impact visible at the crags. Just because they have already been altered by humans, doesn't mean we have to change them more. Clean climbing involves more than no bolts. "Hey, here's a landfill. Well, it's already ruined, let's dump some toxic waste." Are you really that dumb? I hope not. Quote
Szyjakowski Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 AlpineK said: Up yours beotch, I'm just trying to improve the climbing in a previously (many times) altered environment. dont cut the trees. they breed S and S have a cutting free day once in a while Quote
Dru Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 Sphinx said: You preach low impact, but advocate impact. Don't be stupid, the trees don't affect the routes significantly; why change it? Climbing is about the natural environment, if I want to climb in a gym, I'll go to Stone Gardens. Sure, climbers have some impact, but why make it worse. For the dumbfucks who argue about bolting, why the fuck aren't you defending the environment? Chopping down trees has FAR greater impacts than a few bolts. Not everything should be changed for our convenience, assholes. Leave some things alone. Trees grow back Rocks dont Quote
Bug Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 Dru said: Sphinx said: You preach low impact, but advocate impact. Don't be stupid, the trees don't affect the routes significantly; why change it? Climbing is about the natural environment, if I want to climb in a gym, I'll go to Stone Gardens. Sure, climbers have some impact, but why make it worse. For the dumbfucks who argue about bolting, why the fuck aren't you defending the environment? Chopping down trees has FAR greater impacts than a few bolts. Not everything should be changed for our convenience, assholes. Leave some things alone. Trees grow back Rocks dont Trees grow back so fast that if we do not cut some back occaissionally, we will not have anyplace to climb in a decade or so. The only reason we can climb at Index at all is because of the work of many at stripping the moss, dirt, and brush out of the cracks. And cutting back at least a dozen trees since I started climbing there 15 years ago. This is the Pacific Northwest. If you don't scrape a surface clean frequently it will turn green and grow a friggin tree. I am for good environmental practices in our forest. I love trees. But if we do not trim back some trees at Index from time to time, you will not be able to climb there. Just hike around the hillside above the Garden Wall or toward the Upper Town Wall. There are lots of examples of what the Town wall looked like before the trees were removed. Why don't you go climb there? Quote
lummox Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 AlpineK said: Every time I go to Index I see more and more trees I want to kill or at least prune back. I'm not sure if I'm actually motivated enough to hike around with a chainsaw, but the thought has crossed my mind several times. Removing and pruning would cut back on the dank mossy factor at the base of routes. So what do you think of that? Disclaimer: If you're a tree hugging hippie, I'm really not interested in listening to your crap. When it comes to trees there are two types of folks that suck ass; people who hate trees(consciously or unconsciously) and people who think all living things are sacred i think cutting down trees is fucking risky. beyond the obvious timber headache problem tourons and ranger types often are blind to the impact of logging and road construction but see your tree stump at the crag base with crystal vision. Quote
AlpineK Posted June 2, 2003 Author Posted June 2, 2003 Sphinx said: You preach low impact, but advocate impact. Don't be stupid, the trees don't affect the routes significantly; why change it? Climbing is about the natural environment, if I want to climb in a gym, I'll go to Stone Gardens. Sure, climbers have some impact, but why make it worse. For the dumbfucks who argue about bolting, why the fuck aren't you defending the environment? Chopping down trees has FAR greater impacts than a few bolts. Not everything should be changed for our convenience, assholes. Leave some things alone. Japanese Gardens was originally named that because the route went up a moss and lychen covered crack. In fact the whole lower wall has been scraped clean. Climbers have already killed a ton of plant life at Index and destroyed a lot of wildlife habitat. Someone cut back trees about 10 years ago from around the lower wall and now they've grown back. The question is one of maintenance. Cutting back trees will increase air flow, and dry out the wall. Someone has already girdled one of the maples I was thinking of cutting down. As things stand right now there are a bunch of great routes at Index that 10 years ago were nice climbs, but now they are totally swamped with tree branches, moss and lychen. You can cut stuff back and still have a beautiful lush environment. In fact someone will have to cut stuff back again and again in the future; that is if folks want to keep the place a good climbing environment. Quote
AlpineK Posted June 2, 2003 Author Posted June 2, 2003 lummox said: i think cutting down trees is fucking risky. beyond the obvious timber headache problem tourons and ranger types often are blind to the impact of logging and road construction but see your tree stump at the crag base with crystal vision. This is the kind of comment I'm more interested in than tree hugging crap. Quote
Off_White Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 Yeah, Lummox has a good point, and though I haven't been there in awhile, I think AK has a good idea. In a heavily modified widely used habitat, the idea is stewardship, not wilderness. As a former (way former) Southern Californian, I used to be a lot gooshier about trees, but as a long time landowner up here, I've witnessed some of the enormous regenerative power of our climate and flora, and I don't worry so much anymore. I'd say some thoughtful (volunteer!) work by an arborist would improve the crag. Think of it like a haircut: if you don't like it, it will grow out faster than you think. With regards to Lummox's point, who exactly occupies the land manager slot in the food chain with regards to Index? It's worth checking out before acting, but one does sometimes have to be careful about the questions one asks, since you don't always get the answer you want to hear. Quote
Dru Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 They brushed the main powerline thru the Smoke Bluffs, like 2-3 years ago, and the vegetation is already 8 feet high. Well, 7 maybe, but over my head. Quote
iain Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 "Monsanto Town Wall welcomes you!" It'll be just like 3Com park and Safeco field Quote
lummox Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 all i know is i heard fire is a natural part of forest ecology. fire fire Quote
iain Posted June 2, 2003 Posted June 2, 2003 I find the fire extinguishers on the ground particularly amusing Quote
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