Fence_Sitter Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 i am looking at getting a lightwieght static line (60M) for rappels to save on weight. Does anyone regularly use this techinique and would like to add some imput on what diameter (for knot strength vs. weight). thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabertooth Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: i am looking at getting a lightwieght static line (60M) for rappels to save on weight. Does anyone regularly use this techinique and would like to add some imput on what diameter (for knot strength vs. weight). thanks in advance. Go for 60 meters of 6mm perlon. Very lightweight and still raps nicely. A double fisherman to connect them works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Some caveats with the 6mm perlon: 1) It tangles like hell. 2) Because it's static, you really want about 210 ft 3) Be careful with abrasion, etc. because it's so thin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 climb with two lead ropes. solves a lot of problems. two 8.8mm lines from bluewater. static ropes suck unless youre fixing --and then id use a 9mm bluewater 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabertooth Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 If you decide to go with the 6mm perlon, be careful is your primary rope is thin (ie. 9mm). The raps go super fast with a setup like this. I would definately recommend a 2 biner setup on your belay device for more friction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I WOULD USE AN AUTOBLOCK(PRUSSIK, KLEIMHIESHT, ETC...) INSTEAD. BEEST THING TO DO IS NOT PERFORM DOUBLE ROPE RAPS WITH SUCH A SETUP. TIE THEM TOGETHER. PLACE THE KNOT AGAINST THE CHAIN, RAP RING ETC.... AND RAP THE FAT ROPE. HAVING THE SMALL ROPE FOR PULLING ONLY. ALSO CLOVE HITCH A BINER ON THE FAT ROPE BELOW THE RAP RING AND CLIP THE SMALLER DIA. ROPE THROUGH(THIS IS ESSENTIALLY A BACK UP) EMAIL ME FOR MORE CLEAR DIRECTIONS...OR I CAN SHOW YOU NEXT WEEK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 i tink you have hosed your rap there erik. cause to rap the fatty the knot's gotta be on the far side and if then you hitch a biner on the fatty on the near side and clip the skinny you just end up with two fixed ropes you have to put the biner on the side you are gonna pull no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 erik, I can't see how the knot on skinny rope side of anchor/biner on fat rope side of anchor/skinny rope threaded through biner allows one to pull the rope to retrieve both ropes. If you pull the skinny rope, the biner blocks the retrieval pull at the anchor. If you pull the fat rope, the knot is already up against the anchor (that was what blocked the rope from pulling through during the rap). Am I missing something obvious here? Secondly, what exactly is being backed up by the clove hitched biner? If the anchor fails, you're fahqed. If the knot and/or rope fails, you're still fahqed. I don't see how this is supposed to work... Any elaboration available over the'net? ...sobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I would go with half ropes. The amount of weight you save using say, two 8.1-8.5 mm ropes would be comperable to using a 9.8 mm and 6 mm. Maybe not as much, but close, and you would have more security in both climbing and rapping. I wouldn't even mess with the 6mm, to skinny and it doesn't stretch. I wouldn't have made a few rappells without the stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 YES I HAD THE WHICH ROPE YOU CLOVE HITCH WRONG.....FERN CORRECTED ME. THATS WHY I WILL HAVE TO SHOW PEOPLE.... SOBO.....IF THE ANCHOR FAILS NO MATTER WHAT RAP SETUP YOU GOT, YOU ARE FAQUED!! TRUST ME IT WORKS, HAVE DONE A BUNCH OF RAPS LIKE THIS...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 the biner is backing up in case the knot squeezes through the rap-rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 FERN HIT IT ON THE HEAD AGAIN.... IF ANY CONSOLATION WALLSTEIN TAUGHT IT TO ME AND OUTSIDE OF HIM BEING A MIDGET...HE IS FEGGIN CLIMBING BRAIN! AND ZEN MASTER AT SENDING HARD SHIT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 fern said: the biner is backing up in case the knot squeezes through the rap-rings If the knot squeezes through the rap rings and you have the biner backing it up (now on the other side), then you really do have two fixed ropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 chucK said: fern said: the biner is backing up in case the knot squeezes through the rap-rings If the knot squeezes through the rap rings and you have the biner backing it up (now on the other side), then you really do have two fixed ropes. chucK, Agreed. But at least you didn't get the chop when the knot pulled through (a good thing). Now you've just got some ascending to do (on a most assuredly fixed line now) to re-rig the rap and descend again and retrieve the ropes. erik, makes more sense now that you've explained that the knot and the biner are on the same side of the anchor. But another question: If the biner serves as an "autoblock" to prevent the skinny rope from feeding through the anchor if the knot passes the rap rings/chains, what purpose does feeding the fat rope through the biner serve? Just tidying things up a bit, or what? ...sobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin_B Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 chucK said: fern said: the biner is backing up in case the knot squeezes through the rap-rings If the knot squeezes through the rap rings and you have the biner backing it up (now on the other side), then you really do have two fixed ropes. Right, but at least your not dead!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 gee whiz this ain't rocket science. you should go play with some ropes or let erik show you like he says. if the knot can get pulled through the chains one way maybe you yank hard and pull it back through the other way and then your rope isn't fixed anymore? sometimes the ring or loop or whatever is big enough that the knot and the biner both can get pulled through, clipping the other side prevents disastah too much theoretical wanking ... you get the gist go play with some ropes and test the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 You guys are so right!!!! The fact that you are not dead makes reascending your stuck ropes so much easier (and perhaps more enjoyable too!! ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 YEAH AND IT MAKES PULLING IT CLEANER... WE DONT DO THIS ALL THE TIME...SELECT ROUTES AND SHIT.... YOU KNOW ONE MORE TRICK IN THE KITTY.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I've seen this trick. Only the dude used a butterfly knot to attatch the thin rope to a locker that was clipped to the fat rope. He did it so he could rap the fat rope with his gri-gri. At first I was like, "what the hell is that...", but it is a good idea. But it also seems like something that would be more prone to getting stuck when you pull them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.