lummox Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 im over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_h Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Lambone, perhaps you could give her a lesson in retreating. You seem to be pretty good at it. It takes serious skills to bail off one of the easiest routes on El Cap, how many times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Ehmmic posted her story and admitted guilt. I am glad she is safe. I am also glad she posted and started this debate. I don't know if she knew what she was getting into but she triggered a good discussion on ethics and rock degradation. She will not forget it. Same for others. That is a good thing. A few learn and the rock stays in good shape a little longer. Climb on Ehmmic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 fyi, when cleaning pins, hit them with upwards strikes, tap downwards to their original orientation, then repeat. this will create a wedge shape well suited to nut placement. this technique is especially helpful on first ascents of soft rock (for example, many routes in zion were prepped in this way by the first ascentionists). Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 lummox said: fyi, when cleaning pins, hit them with upwards strikes, tap downwards to their original orientation, then repeat. this will create a wedge shape well suited to nut placement. this technique is especially helpful on first ascents of soft rock (for example, many routes in zion were prepped in this way by the first ascentionists). yeaH! after all we all want to be "Free Climbers!" remember kidz "Just say no to aid" as "aid" equals Trouble! Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 ...how many times? Â Jason, Â When it comes to bailing...I'm an expert! The technical stuff is the easy part, it's the mental anguish and depression that follows afterwards that is the crux....But so far I'm 3 for 5 on El Cap, so that ain't too bad. And I wouldn't call the NA and Trip the easiest routes on El Cap. Trade routes sure, but they are steep and scary as hell, and both were attempted with first timers....not that it matters. Anyway, hopefully that rate will change this spring. Â Bug couldn't have said it better. I wanted to start a ethics discussion, not a "what ehmmic did right or wrong" spray fest. Â lummox brings up a great point about the best way to clean pins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty_climber Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I wanted to start a ethics discussion, not a "what ehmmic did right or wrong" spray fest. Â What's ethically more correct then? Getting yourself down from a pitch with a couple of pitons and going home for burgers or calling in a rescue while on top of Glacier Peak because you were to scared to walk down the mountain? Â I just had to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 i plan to nail my way up Classic Crack by leap frogging my 4 bongs. to clean climbing nazis. if you dont like my pin placements i will bolt it. Â on a more serious note Perry Beckham was witnessed hammering pins into University Wall (even though he has freed it!!) while guiding an aid ascent, not for safety, merely for convenience, to make the pitch go faster. discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Dru said: i plan to nail my way up Classic Crack by leap frogging my 4 bongs. to clean climbing nazis. if you dont like my pin placements i will bolt it. too late Fred already did years ago.... evidence is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Yeah that's pretty funny... Â Once again, IF the pins WERE placed as a rap anchor then your little argument might hold some water. Sure, preserving a life comes WAY before a little bit of rock scaring. However, they wern't...so the point your are trying to make seems a bit obtuse to me... Â So if others want to continue this discussion- forget about ehmmic and the Green Drag-on. She's over it, I'm over it, lets stop refering to her not-so-fun experience. Â Lets focus on the topic. What justifies placing pitons? Does a wet crack justify it? Does being scared justify it? I've nailed pins on routes that have gone clean, I'm not inoccent. But I feel guilty, and regret even getting on the route. After how many clean ascents does it become no-longer OK to nail a on route? One, a few...? Â Oh and by the way...the cheap shots about Glacier peak are not upsetting me...so might as well just give it up. The ethics of cell phones is a different subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Dru, How does nailing go faster than doing it clean? Especialy if your client has to clean the pins...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Szyjakowski said: Dru said: i plan to nail my way up Classic Crack by leap frogging my 4 bongs. to clean climbing nazis. if you dont like my pin placements i will bolt it. Â Ok sao it will be a retrobolt, big deal. too late Fred already did years ago.... evidence is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Dru said: Szyjakowski said: Dru said: i plan to nail my way up Classic Crack by leap frogging my 4 bongs. to clean climbing nazis. if you dont like my pin placements i will bolt it. Â Ok sao it will be a retrobolt, big deal. too late Fred already did years ago.... evidence is still there. good fukin luck removing the welded on rusty shanks that fred called bolts...or whoever really putem in back in the 19th century! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty_climber Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Hopefully Fred is bolting more cracks now. That way all I have to carry is quick draws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 crusty_climber said: Hopefully Fred is bolting more cracks now. That way all I have to carry is quick draws. fred can still use a hammer? whoaa he is GOD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Bolted Crack! Bolted cracks rule... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty_climber Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Lambone said: Yeah that's pretty funny... Â Once again, IF the pins WERE placed as a rap anchor then your little argument might hold some water. Sure, preserving a life comes WAY before a little bit of rock scaring. However, they wern't...so the point your are trying to make seems a bit obtuse to me... Â So if others want to continue this discussion- forget about ehmmic and the Green Drag-on. She's over it, I'm over it, lets stop refering to her not-so-fun experience. Â Lets focus on the topic. What justifies placing pitons? Does a wet crack justify it? Does being scared justify it? I've nailed pins on routes that have gone clean, I'm not inoccent. But I feel guilty, and regret even getting on the route. After how many clean ascents does it become no-longer OK to nail a on route? One, a few...? Â Oh and by the way...the cheap shots about Glacier peak are not upsetting me...so might as well just give it up. The ethics of cell phones is a different subject. Â The topic was - they rescued themselves and you couldn't. Â Tell us how it was. Was it something like that beach raid on Apocalypse Now when all the choppers came in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Rescued themselves???? They wen't climbing in the rain, brought pins, nailed them, got sick of the rain, built an anchor out of cams and nuts and bailed...leaving the pins. By the way, the anchor is to Sean's left in that link posted above. Â Riding on the Chinook was fun, bet you wish you were still doing that kind of stuff...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty_climber Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Lambone said: Rescued themselves???? They wen't climbing in the rain, brought pins, nailed them, got sick of the rain, built an anchor out of cams and nuts and bailed...leaving the pins. By the way, the anchor is to Sean's left in that link posted above. Â Awesome. Sounds like they got to the burger joint unassisted. Â What about your stint? Did you just get tired of the wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Dude, I was with two chicks, nuff said...we wern't moving anywhere in that weather. We fucked up, we shouldn't have been there, how many times can I say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 oooh hard man Lambone could have rescued himself. but was with 2 chicas who he had to protect???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty_climber Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I wish we had some photos of Perry smashing metal into granite at the U Wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COL._Von_Spanker Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Lambone said: Rescued themselves???? They wen't climbing in the rain, brought pins, nailed them, got sick of the rain, built an anchor out of cams and nuts and bailed...leaving the pins. By the way, the anchor is to Sean's left in that link posted above.  Riding on the Chinook was fun, bet you wish you were still doing that kind of stuff...?  1. You are a liar for the sake of argument. 2. That wasn't what happened, you weren't there so don't pretend you know what you are talking about. 4. Two pins were placed 5. I don't think I have ever aid climbed when it's not raining, I'm not made of sugar, I won't melt, and btw we spent the night up there for fun  If you are so inclined to continue the conversation, which it seems you are, why don't you call me at work, so at least you can talk about it with the person that was there rather that making up a bunch of horseshit, of do you have the balls to...  Geoff  My work 425.402.6237    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Another quality First Descent - you should be proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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