Which 4WD SUV?

[erik]

time out!

 

smoke a bowl!

 

post something else!

 

and

 

[JGowans]

Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said:

it is interesting to me that the same people that seem to be anti war (because we shouldn't tell others how to live) think that it is perfectly okay to tell another man what kind of car he should drive. So what is it??/ should one group of people get to tell others how to live or not?

 

Just want to point out that I am anti-war and still don't think it's right to tell other how to live hence my not being in the anti-SUV camp. My thoughts are perfectly aligned my dear.

[JoshK]

Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said:

it is interesting to me that the same people that seem to be anti war (because we shouldn't tell others how to live) think that it is perfectly okay to tell another man what kind of car he should drive. So what is it??/ should one group of people get to tell others how to live or not?

 

Muffy, your point might hold water if it weren't for the fact that this war was prosecuted for the self-serving reasons of our president and his chronies. If you are dumb enough to think it's for the betterment of the iraqi people, I have some waterfront in arizona I'd set you up with for a reasonable price. In fact, interestingly enough, the same people who push SUVs (the auto industry) are lining the pockets of the republican party just as is the pro-war oil industry. Feel free to look up campaign contrubitions or do a little research on the matter.

[rbw1966]

Ursa_Eagle said:

JGowans said:

as I stated previously, it's a personal choice and it's none of your business.

 

And as I've stated (and shown evidence of) it is my business, and everyone else who has a penis larger than 2" and doesn't drive an environment wrecking, "fuck everyone else around me", yuppie death-mobile.

 

Hey Ursa--

 

I'll be at the Pub Club at the Horse Brass Thursday. I drive a forest green 4runner and I will park it right out front under a streetlight. Bring some stickers. And some bandages.

 

Here's a story for all you judgmental little twits out there: I own the above-described SUV. I've been bike commuting to work and elsewhere in Portland for over 15 years (7 of those years I didn't even own a car). For the most part, my truck remains idle throughout the week (less than 20K in the 4 years that I've owned it). I use it when I go to the mountains, when I am hauling a lot of crap and/or my two dogs. My wife drives a TDI Passat that gets about 40mpg on the highway but is impractical for hauling around gear and dogs and she doesn't want to fuck it up by driving down the gravel roads that I oftentimes drive my truck down. On the extremely rare occasion that I drive to work you may actually see me driving solo in it with a suit on because my wife drives the Passat to her work.

 

Oh--and in those 15 years of bike commuting I've had three accidents involving motor vehicles. Twice with hondas and once with a BMW. Never with an SUV.

 

So Ursa, wanna tag my truck? Its really sad that you are this judgmental. A car is a tool. Do I need to drive an SUV? Probably not but its the right tool for the job.

[sk]

JGowans said:

Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said:

it is interesting to me that the same people that seem to be anti war (because we shouldn't tell others how to live) think that it is perfectly okay to tell another man what kind of car he should drive. So what is it??/ should one group of people get to tell others how to live or not?

 

Just want to point out that I am anti-war and still don't think it's right to tell other how to live hence my not being in the anti-SUV camp. My thoughts are perfectly aligned my dear.

 

I wasn't pointing at you sugar

[JoshK]

Rob, I don't think anybody would have a problem with your ownership of said vehicle for it's purposes.

 

To add new life to this already god-awful thread, I pose this question. If SUVs were taxed more according to their above normal usage of fuel, road wear and danger to other vechiles, thus making the cost of ownership more in line with the cost to society as a whole, would SUV owners object? Yes, this would mean more cost to people who actually use them, but it would hopefully discourage joe and jan suburbia from community around in a tank. Thoughts?

[rbw1966]

But Josh, if you saw me in my suit driving to work on the ONE day that year I did so wouldn't you be passing the same judgment on me that you did on the other guy? Don't you see the hypocrisy?

[sk]

JoshK said:

Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said:

it is interesting to me that the same people that seem to be anti war (because we shouldn't tell others how to live) think that it is perfectly okay to tell another man what kind of car he should drive. So what is it??/ should one group of people get to tell others how to live or not?

 

Muffy, your point might hold water if it weren't for the fact that this war was prosecuted for the self-serving reasons of our president and his chronies. If you are dumb enough to think it's for the betterment of the iraqi people, I have some waterfront in arizona I'd set you up with for a reasonable price. In fact, interestingly enough, the same people who push SUVs (the auto industry) are lining the pockets of the republican party just as is the pro-war oil industry. Feel free to look up campaign contrubitions or do a little research on the matter.

 

you just so proved my point why don't you stop worrying about what others are doing and LIVE HOW YOU BELIEVE and let others do the same.

 

if I had money to contribute to a campain of some sort I might put my time into some resurch... until then, I will live in ignorant bliss and just worry about where the next meal is comming from.

[JoshK]

Huh!? How the hell did I prove your point?

[vegetablebelay]

JoshK, they are already paying more in the form of gas taxes. You're trying to go the wrong direction - we need less government and less taxes.

[ChrisT]

Wow this thread threatens to overtake "I've been humbled" as perhaps the longest thread in cc.com history!

[sk]

JoshK said:

Huh!? How the hell did I prove your point?

 

because all of your energy is focused on what OTHERS are doing

[rbw1966]

YOu weren't around for the Muir on Saturday thread. We've got a long ways to go before we surpass that one.

[JoshK]

rbw1966 said:

But Josh, if you saw me in my suit driving to work on the ONE day that year I did so wouldn't you be passing the same judgment on me that you did on the other guy? Don't you see the hypocrisy?

 

In your specific case, no, because I could really care less about 4 runners and stuff. They have existed for a while. Teh pandemic of the suburban/yukon/edpidition that exploded in the late 90s is the real problem.

 

To answe the more general question, yes, I would be stereotyping, and considering it is correct 90% of the time, I would just have to live with the fact that I am wrong the other 10% of the time. Those out there like you will know who they are, and realize the message isn't too them. It's the rest of the people trying to keep up with the jones that I would like to see get a clue.

[JoshK]

vegetablebelay said:

JoshK, they are already paying more in the form of gas taxes. You're trying to go the wrong direction - we need less government and less taxes.

 

Their vehicles fit in several loopholes. They have to meet less stringent fuel economy requirements, emmisions standards, crash standards, safety standards, etc. etc. etc. Do some research.

 

As for your second comment, I disagree. Taxing shit like this to help the general public I am all for. I'd love to see a $1 a gallon gas tax to *really* get people in alternative energy vehicles. I belivee we need to make some sacrifices to help this planet which we have already shit on, and unfortunately most people out there are too selfish to do this on their own. I am all for having the government "persuade" them to.

[JoshK]

Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said:

JoshK said:

Huh!? How the hell did I prove your point?

 

because all of your energy is focused on what OTHERS are doing

 

Yes, I would like to see this world improved for EVERYBODY, not just me. That means no saddam hussein, no george bush, and less use of fossil fuels and tearing down of rain forests? What the fuck is your point? Are you advocating we all just live according to our best interests and fuck everybody else? Whatever, muffy.

[sk]

JoshK said:

vegetablebelay said:

JoshK, they are already paying more in the form of gas taxes. You're trying to go the wrong direction - we need less government and less taxes.

 

Their vehicles fit in several loopholes. They have to meet less stringent fuel economy requirements, emmisions standards, crash standards, safety standards, etc. etc. etc. Do some research.

 

As for your second comment, I disagree. Taxing shit like this to help the general public I am all for. I'd love to see a $1 a gallon gas tax to *really* get people in alternative energy vehicles. I belivee we need to make some sacrifices to help this planet which we have already shit on, and unfortunately most people out there are too selfish to do this on their own. I am all for having the government "persuade" them to.

 

YOU FIRST...how about you give away everything you own quit your job and go live on the street. when are you going to learn that the government progrmas that are out there DON"T WORK, not well at any rate. the more we "trust" the government to take carew of us and the business of living and beeing the less personal power we have. Look at it from this prespective... how did the governmenbt do in "taking care" of the indians? do you realy want those same ideas and practices perpitrated all over our society?

[JoshK]

Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said:

JoshK said:

vegetablebelay said:

JoshK, they are already paying more in the form of gas taxes. You're trying to go the wrong direction - we need less government and less taxes.

 

Their vehicles fit in several loopholes. They have to meet less stringent fuel economy requirements, emmisions standards, crash standards, safety standards, etc. etc. etc. Do some research.

 

As for your second comment, I disagree. Taxing shit like this to help the general public I am all for. I'd love to see a $1 a gallon gas tax to *really* get people in alternative energy vehicles. I belivee we need to make some sacrifices to help this planet which we have already shit on, and unfortunately most people out there are too selfish to do this on their own. I am all for having the government "persuade" them to.

 

YOU FIRST...how about you give away everything you own quit your job and go live on the street. when are you going to learn that the government progrmas that are out there DON"T WORK, not well at any rate. the more we "trust" the government to take carew of us and the business of living and beeing the less personal power we have. Look at it from this prespective... how did the governmenbt do in "taking care" of the indians? do you realy want those same ideas and practices perpitrated all over our society?

 

 

You want less government, Muffy? Go move somewhere in Africa. It's every man and woman for themselves there.

[sk]

you didn't asnwer my question

[rr666]

Well, with a thread this long, I just have to throw my 2 cents in. I think the SUV craze is a bit silly, they suck up gas, some people drive them to feel special or show their status, many of them are ugly (where did the Aztec ever go?).

 

In the end though, is yelling at SUV drivers going to get us anywhere. No. People will do what people do no matter what other people say. People who drive them for status, the meanest thing you can do to them is ignore them and their SUVs. that will generally piss them off.

 

If there is any solution to the gas guzzling, it would be to force the automakers to improve their fuel efficiencies, and I believe some of that is required. The technology is there, so we should be using it. However, why just point at SUVs as horrible. There are so many cars out there that also get poor gas mileage, they may not be as bad as a 13 mpg Durango, but they also suck the gas down.

 

I drive a Saturn, 40 mpg on the freeway, and 35 mpg in town. I think SUVs are generally ugly and impractical for how much they cost, and would never think of buying one. Basically, they are the minivans of the 90's and today,and I would never think of buying a mini-van either.

 

There is no solution to the SUV debate.

 

 

[JoshK]

Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said:

you didn't asnwer my question

 

What happened to the indians happened a long while ago. It was a travesty. So was slavery. I suppose you are going to argue that the people of this country (and thus the government that represents them) hasn't changed in the past 200 years? Keep trying, it's funny.

[JoshK]

rr666 sums it up perfectly. I agree that we can't force people to not drive SUVs. I just want to see them taxes appropriately and forced to comply with reasonable standards like cars do. The loopholes are bullshit.

[sk]

you are an idiot...

 

my point is that government programs don't realy work well. They never have and they never will. Over all there is SOME success, but little by little the dependency on the government to provide and care for us tears at the fabric of our society and lessons us... all of us.

[JoshK]

Very optimistic of you muffy. I would argue it's you that's an idiot, but that wouldn't get us anywhere, no would it? You are right, I should stop depending on the government to provide me with roads shouldn't I? I suppose I should simply band up with my neighbors to build a militia rather than relying on the police or the military huh? And the FDA isn't a good idea, clearly I should simply test all food and drugs for safety on my own. God you are clueless. Please tell me somebody doesn't actually pay you to do anything.

[sk]

JoshK said:

Very optimistic of you muffy. I would argue it's you that's an idiot, but that wouldn't get us anywhere, no would it? You are right, I should stop depending on the government to provide me with roads shouldn't I? I suppose I should simply band up with my neighbors to build a militia rather than relying on the police or the military huh? And the FDA isn't a good idea, clearly I should simply test all food and drugs for safety on my own. God you are clueless. Please tell me somebody doesn't actually pay you to do anything.

 

over exageration is realy undignified back to my main point... pelple should think for themselves. I am going to turn on my tv so I can be properly programed