PI Article on Roskelly

[pindude]

kakeandjelly said:

My wife and I are reading this book now, about 3/4 of the way through and at first we thought the same thing as you. after a bit though, He talks about maturing and after he is there for Marty's death he sure seems to cool out a bit. I still think he is a bit cocksure, but he seems pretty bad ass. I think it is true that he has improved (attitude) with age. BTW, how old is he now? any body know the date that the story ran in the Spokane paper?

 

kakeandjelly, click on the links I previously posted (or read the hyperlink text) and you'll find out the date. Indeed, the newspaper article was mainly on Roskelley, but since the only book discussed on this thread is Wick's Addicted to Danger, you must be referring to Wickwire with your comments and age question.

 

BTW, Roskelley is spelled with two "e's," although there are no umlauts or other interesting punctuation.

 

Roskelley was not on Big Lou's 1982 Everest North Wall expedition with Wickwire.

Edited March 17, 2003 by pindude

[iain]

Mt Si. The Tragic Expedition

[RobBob]

I'm just glad that Offwhite and Co. aren't using 'Mattp rules' for this thread, or it wouldn't exist.

[dalius]

pindude said:

But while training with Wickwire in November on Mount Rainier, Hommer was killed by rockfall.

"Wickwire was devastated," Roskelley said. "At that point the expedition was off. It had been Ed's trip.

Damn, I didn't realize the poor chap was climbing with Wickwire. Some really bad luck there.

[mattp]

RobBob, you are mistaken if you think that I would feel compelled to shut down this thread. And I'm hurt that you would say such a thing.

 

Meanwhile, back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

I find it amazing, and somewhat worriesome, that a famouns mountain climber would take his fifteen year old son (or is he sixteen?) to try to climb Mount Everest. Not surprising, perhaps, but .... What do you folks think about this?

[iain]

Seems many of the people who have successfully been guided up Everest did not do much in the way of helping w/ planning and prep and simply had to slog it up there on the fixed lines and do what they were told. I guess it would probably come down to whether the kid had developed the stamina yet or not. there are some fit kids out there. Also I would guess a smaller frame would be more susceptible to hypothermia and general exposure. Who knows? Do you consider it irresponsible?

[chucK]

You better be pretty freakin' sure that nothing bad is gonna happen because in that situation the kid is powerless. The kid trusts his Dad completely, so there is no real 'consent' given. It is unlikely that a sixteen year old fully comprehends mortal danger. He'll just be going on the word of his Dad.

 

I'm not a himalaya climber, but from what I've read, there is not "freakin' surety" that nothing bad is gonna happen. No matter what you do. Though people argue that climbing is no more dangerous than driving a car (which is probably a better argument when a sixteen year old is involved), I think that this is probably a losing argument when the 'climbing' being discussed is Everest.

[RobBob]

I for one could not conceive of taking one of my kids up Everest or the like. While you want your kids to learn to live fully and not be totally risk-averse, it is also your job as a parent to set limits (as opposed to push limits) with your kids.

 

I know from reading that Roskelley is conservative, but the mission itself is inherently dangerous. Those of you with kids can imagine how you would feel if you lost a child while climbing Everest. The fact that you would probably lose your spouse over it as well would be a sidebar.

 

Go ahead, people, spray about how risk is a personal thing. I say it doesn't make sense.

[allthumbs]

I wouldn't do it with my kid. I figure he'll have enuf chances to kill himself without my help.

[Off_White]

Matt: I believe the son is now 20, and did a route in India with Roskelley when he was 16. That said, it would indeed make me anxious. I experienced some of that taking 18 year old son up N Ridge Stuart for his first alpine climb. Roskelley was also on the Nanda Devi expedition when Willi Unsoeld's daughter died up high. I sincerely wish him better luck.

 

Pindude's spelling correction enacted

Edited March 18, 2003 by Off_White

[RobBob]

If he's 20, that makes more sense than 16, IMO.

 

My first "climbing" experience was messing around in the Tetons at age 17 while on a family vacation. I was out by myself, following trails upward and passing signs that indicated that I wasn't supposed to be there without a permit. It sure seemed fun...glad I wasn't killed by rockfall. Hell, I didn't even know what rockfall was.

[pindude]

mattp said:

I find it amazing, and somewhat worriesome, that a famouns mountain climber would take his fifteen year old son (or is he sixteen?) to try to climb Mount Everest. Not surprising, perhaps, but .... What do you folks think about this?

 

John's son Jess is indeed 20, and that of course is a huge difference. Jess has been an RMI guide I believe for 2 years, is successful and well-respected. I can't imagine a better teacher and companion than John R., one of our country's most experienced Himalayan climbers, who many times hung it all out there, but also has shown he knows when not to. The best and coolest part of it all is that this Himalayan mentor is his dad.

 

Hey moderators: RoskellEy, RoskellEy, RoskellEy!!!

[mattp]

I believe I read in the P-I that he was, like, 16. It serves me right for taking that as correct. Indeed, I would say there is a difference between being 16 and 20, and the fact that he has prior high altitude experience makes a difference too. I thought it was an interesting question, however, whether a father should or whether any of us as fathers might take a son on a dangerous expedition.

[chelle]

I imagine that there is a desire to share the experience with him. They both are competent climbers. Would it be different if they were just friends or didn't really know eachother well?

[mattp]

Indeed, Ehnmic, it would be different. I have known a lot of climbers who sought to introduce their children to the world of climbing and, just as with any other parenting issue, there are a myriad different ways to handle these issues. But when a father seeks to impel their son to perform in such a dangerous endeavor, I think there is great potential for the son to be unable to excercise their own independent judgment. I don't know them and I know nothing about their plans. I am not expressing any opinion about the relationship between Roskelly and his son.

[pindude]

mattp said:

I thought it was an interesting question, however, whether a father should or whether any of us as fathers might take a son on a dangerous expedition.

 

'Tis an interesting question.

 

mattp said:

I have known a lot of climbers who sought to introduce their children to the world of climbing and, just as with any other parenting issue, there are a myriad different ways to handle these issues. But when a father seeks to impel their son to perform in such a dangerous endeavor, I think there is great potential for the son to be unable to excercise their own independent judgment. I don't know them and I know nothing about their plans. I am not expressing any opinion about the relationship between Roskelly and his son.

 

I don’t profess to know everything about the Roskelleys, and I don’t know Jess personally or first-hand. But I want to respond to the above to clear up anything that could become misperception, and God knows John has suffered enough from misperceptions generated by the media through the years, and recently with the travesty called a book recently written by Robert Roper. John and Jess are headed out in the next 1-2 days, and I wish them the best of success. I’ll take a stab at the above and address it in relation to what I know about the Roskelleys, and my own experience, and I’ll keep my flame suit on.

 

I think there are at least 3 items of note allowing for a parent to successfully teach a son or daughter climbing, including in the Himalaya:

 

1. Kid must want to do it on their own; no pushing from folks: While certainly there is some influence in having a dad as a famous climber, my understanding is that John never pushed his son to take up climbing, and that Jess sought it out on his own. While the offer was there for Jess to climb when he wanted to, Jess didn't want to try it until I believe about 5 years ago, when he was 15 or 16. Climbing certainly is now one of his great passions. My own daughter was given the opportunity and TR-climbed with me at the crag a few times from the time she was about 7. Around 10, she decided she didn’t want to be a climber, and I didn’t force her. She’s a self-described city-lover, and will graduate from college shortly. I’m glad for her that she is choosing the life she wants, even if it’s somewhat different from my own.

 

2. Kid must be mature enough to learn, and there must be a good parent-kid relationship in the first place: Some kids are not mature enough to learn, whether it be from parent or someone else. As a rebellious 15- to 16-year-old, I didn’t learn much then from my own dad (I did learn from others), but once I went away to college I matured along with our relationship. OTOH, some kids are mature at a younger age--I’ve introduced and taught climbing to many kids and adults, and have had some younger kids, including one particular bright, athletically gifted 14-year-old, who was more mature and a better student than a great many adults I’ve taught. So it depends on the individual kid to a great degree. Here, Jess is hardly a kid anymore, but is a mature, smart, independent-thinker and skilled climber, and has a good relationship with his dad.

 

3. Parent has to be a good teacher: In the Roskelley’s case, John has taught and worked with literally hundreds of happy climbers in this area and elsewhere through the world, and has decades of Himalayan experience. Granted, the Himalaya is a dangerous place, but if I was going, I don’t think one could have a better mentor than a John Roskelley, whether he was one’s dad or not.

 

In response to 1-2 of the other posts, I’ll add that it would be hypocritical if I told my daughter she couldn’t climb while I do so myself. Hypothetically speaking, if she did want to climb, it would be irresponsible of me—as I am a capable climbing teacher—if I didn’t offer to teach her on my own, in addition to encouraging her to learn from others as well. Re. going to the Himalaya, I am not an expeditionary climber, and have not seriously climbed outside of North America. But if my daughter showed she was capable of climbing in the Himalaya and wanted to, I might have a case for holding her back because of the statistically greater chance she might die or get hurt than what I do climbing around the mountains of North America--I certainly wouldn't have much of a case for holding her back from climbing on this continent. Personally, I would give her my blessings IF the Himalaya were her dream, knowing that she IS a strong, independent thinker, but also knowing that (again, hypothetically speaking) she was climbing-skilled and with another or more, including Wickwire, who would capably mentor and teach her in that special environment.

 

Go Roskelleys, Wickwire, and Bass!

 

--Steve Reynolds

 

[Old_Man]

OM has climbed with Jess. He's a tough young climber, with some brains behind that brawn, and not too impulsive, like 20 year-olds can be.

 

It's cool that Jess has the opportunity to attempt Everest. Godspeed for a great trip and some good stories for post-trip sharing. Hopefully by his return, he'll be 21--and can join us inside the bar for solid celebrating, no matter what the outcome of his experience.

[peacemaker]

 

 

[Scott_J]

I knew Jim thru a friend that died with him in the Fairweathers. Jim is not cocky about the death of friends and partners. It affects him deeply.

I met John when he and I were both young lads. John is a honest hard working man and I would believe his son to be the same. So I really doubt there is any underlying issue to discredit the young Sherpa lad from his climb of the mountain. All these men want to do is go to the mountain and do what they like to do...climb and be with nature.

[peacemaker]

Discredit? Wick? That would require credibility.