i hope this mall burns to the ground

[cracked]

That's what I was wondering. I may think that many peaceniks are dumbasses, but why would the mall care enough to try to get them out of there?

[sexual_chocolate]

A fellow was removed from a seattle baseball game when he refused to remove a "yankees suck" t-shirt. Another case of a privately owned public forum? (although safeco is publicly owned/financed?)

hmmm....I can't say i understand the legal distinctions between forums where free speech are/are not protected.

 

and why do people hate malls so much? i avoid them simply because i usually get a headache, plus there are no stores i like to go to, for the most part. except bellevue square has a shoe store with the coolest Clarks i've seen!.

[tomcat]

The way I understand it the constitution applies to America as a whole. This would theoretically mean there is no difference in rights on private and public land. I say theoretically because the first ammendment doesn't protect all speech like it was designed to do. Sure you've got free speech, but be prepared to pay the consequences.

 

Edited to say that there are property rights under the constitution the same way there are rights to free speech protected under the constitution. Which takes precedence I guess is up to the person who owns the land. I'm no lawyer, but I think you should be able to remove whomever from your property if you don't like what they're saying. Even though I'm not a give peace a chance kind of guy when it comes to the conflict in Iraq, I don't think I would have made the same decision to kick these folks out of the mall for voicing their otherwise harmless opinion.

[Off_White]

j_b said:

I agree with erik and mojo nixon

 

so you hate banks too? and how is Martha doin'?

 

And I ain't too fond of the cable teevee company neither. Martha I expect will turn up in some "where are they now" filler piece on Entertainment Tonight with Tom Brokaw.

 

 

[Dave_Schuldt]

What will happen when I wear one of my hempfest tshirts at Northgate?

[JoshK]

Dave_Schuldt said:

What will happen when I wear one of my hempfest tshirts at Northgate?

 

two words...

 

KNIGHT STICK

[Roger]

The actual language of the First Amendment only applies to government action. It prohibits the government from taking actions that restrict the content of individual speech. So, for example, the police can't hassle someone who is protesting in Pioneer Square just because they don't like his message.

 

The opposite end of the spectrum would be actions between private individuals on totally private property, where there is clearly no first amendment applicability. You can't walk into Nike HQ with protest signs and claim a free speech right when they try to throw you out.

 

The hard questions are in the middle, where you have semi-public forums like shopping malls. Totally private property. But, courts have held that these places are held open to the public, and have become the modern-day equivalent of a "town square" (it's sad but true) where some level of public expression must be tolerated, even if the property owner doesn't agree with the message. Malls can place reasonable restrictions on speech - basically, they can keep it from being noisy or otherwise disruptive to business. If this guy were running around the mall screaming about the war and disrupting happy shoppers, they could probably kick him out. But they definitely can't kick him out for not removing a T-shirt just because they don't like what it says.

[specialed]

Roger said:

The actual language of the First Amendment only applies to government action. It prohibits the government from taking actions that restrict the content of individual speech. So, for example, the police can't hassle someone who is protesting in Pioneer Square just because they don't like his message.

 

The opposite end of the spectrum would be actions between private individuals on totally private property, where there is clearly no first amendment applicability. You can't walk into Nike HQ with protest signs and claim a free speech right when they try to throw you out.

 

The hard questions are in the middle, where you have semi-public forums like shopping malls. Totally private property. But, courts have held that these places are held open to the public, and have become the modern-day equivalent of a "town square" (it's sad but true) where some level of public expression must be tolerated, even if the property owner doesn't agree with the message. Malls can place reasonable restrictions on speech - basically, they can keep it from being noisy or otherwise disruptive to business. If this guy were running around the mall screaming about the war and disrupting happy shoppers, they could probably kick him out. But they definitely can't kick him out for not removing a T-shirt just because they don't like what it says.

 

Exactly. Courts have ruled that people can peacefully hand out political fliers in malls without restriction. Which is a lot more intrusive than just wearing a peace t-shirt. I think its pretty safe to guess that if this guy took this issue to court he would win. Even though the mall owner might claim his business is being compromised because people won't shop there if someone is allowed to wear a peace t-shirt, the balance would shift in favor of free speech over property rights, in this instance.

[E-rock]

Fairweather said:

So if I park my car at a local college campus, or say, in Freemont....with an "I support George W Bush" bumper sticker affixed, my free speech rights will be respected?

 

I propose that it is highly likely my vehicle would be vandalized by the local "peace-loving" people there.

 

Is the "mall story" complete? Perhaps similarly clad individuals had participated in a not-so-peaceful protest earlier??

 

Fairweather, has this happened to you or someone you know in Fremont or at a University? Your statement strikes me as paranoid and out of touch with reality. Living in the city sure is SCARY isn't it? Especially for all you poor, maligned, misunderstood Republicans.

[Fairweather]

Erock,

 

The very premise of this thread; "I hope this mall burns to the ground", lends credence to the notion that it is lefties like you that are paranoid....and even dangerous.

 

And the answer to your question is "yes".

[Dru]

How is the phrase " I HOPE (emphasis mine) this mall burns to the ground", any different from the phrase "God will punish you for your sins." Both invoke an outside agency to mete out what speaker considers appropriate retrtibution. Neither suggests any active will on the part of the participant to burn mall or punish sinner.

[tomcat]

Good point Dru! Before anyone gets all riled up at me, I'm not trying to put down anyone's religion, just agreeing with a very clever point.

[erik]

Fairweather said:

Erock,

 

The very premise of this thread; "I hope this mall burns to the ground", lends credence to the notion that it is lefties like you that are paranoid....and even dangerous.

 

And the answer to your question is "yes".

 

i hope you are not referring to me as one of the "lefties" cause i think all you "political" folk bent on "telling" us make me laugh!

 

[Fairweather]

erik said:

Fairweather said:

Erock,

 

The very premise of this thread; "I hope this mall burns to the ground", lends credence to the notion that it is lefties like you that are paranoid....and even dangerous.

 

And the answer to your question is "yes".

 

i hope you are not referring to me as one of the "lefties" cause i think all you "political" folk bent on "telling" us make me laugh!

 

 

I'd never pick a fight with a moderator. (except Alpine K)

[erik]

that dont mean shit....bring it on....

 

but i have no political affliation....

 

just an attitude and an opinion.....