jja

took me a second to figure out why these pics look so great ... climbing under that bright blue sky must of been the bomb !!

The replacement gloves I got worked great this past weekend. The seams are showing no signs of undue wear. I'm sure it was just a bad pair I got before. Now that they haven't fallen apart on me, I can honestly say these gloves rock. the ice flows seem to have all the advantages of thin gloves like the drytool, but with a little bit more warmth and knuckle padding. My hands never got cold (well it never got below ~25F) and I really think the thin palms kept my hands / forearms from getting too pumped on long steep sections. FWIW, I'd recommend these.

I'm leaving around 4:30 Friday and will be back Sunday night - just chip in for gas.

"Alcohol contains calories, but drinking alcohol doesn't lead to weight gain, according to extensive medical research, and many studies report a small reduction in weight for women who drink." Check it out here woo hoo !!

When you design one let me know, I'd love to get a pair. Seriously there's a design compromise here. Warm and waterproof means bulky. Thin and nimble means cold and wet. I'm sure some gloves are better than others at getting the design right, but there is no one perfect glove. Consider instead two pairs, one thin and light for tough leads. When you get to the belay, pull on your parka (yeah right in this weather) and your heavy gloves or over-mitts, and settle in. When it's time to climb again, jump back into your action suit twight-like and be on your way. There's a discussion on gloves right now in the gear critic, which is probably where this post belongs.

Do you know who carries these?

These gloves aren't supposed to be waterproof, I was thinking of using seam grip just as reinforcement. But you're right, if this new replacement pair only lasts one weekend, I have wasted my money.

and the seams are holding up ok?

Certainly not worth a 6 hour drive for just this and marble ...

Used these gloves ice climbing this past weekend. The seam joining the leather palm and the fabric on the right thumb had a 3" blow out, the same seam on the left thumb had about 1/2" of seam give way. I didn't abuse them in any particular way other than climb in them. At first I thought the funky screw head on the grivel 360's caught the seam and ripped it open while placing gear, but then the left thumb started to go to. Brought them back to marmot mountain in bellevue and they exchanged them for me, and are sending the others back to cloudveil. I don't think it was any particular manufacturing defect though, just maybe a bad design. I think I'll seam grip the seams around the thumb on the replacements before I use them, and hope for the best. Other than the small bit about them falling apart they're really nice gloves.

So do we reveal the true nature and hidden life of one of cc.com's sprayers? or do we keep the dark secret in the closet - so to speak.

hey fromage, did you hear any thing recent about any other ice? nobody that I asked had any beta other than marble/rambles. I'm probably going back next weekend and am going to shoot for oregon jack or something in bridge canyon plus marble again (got to lead icy bc this time). That group of 7 in the van were ok guys, their leader colin was cool, but every body was complete newbies, so the hack-o-rama was to be expected. At least they kept it confined to that one area. On saturday they were on the lower pitch of the right rambles with one tr setup and everybody else bouldering on the bottom ramp - that's 14 swingin tools. It didn't look like they were going to get out of the way, so I rapped right through the middle of em rude-euro style.

Lillooet update: We were a little bit worried when the rain started around Vancouver and continued through Pemberton on friday night, but it tapered off by the time we were on the duffy lake road. It turned out to be a fairly good weekend. Rambles - both left and right lines are sort of in. The top of the second pitch on the left has no ice. On the right there's plenty of ice on the first two pitches. The gully leading up to the upper ice has no snow and only patches of ice in it. The upper ice itself was leadable (by me that is) in only one spot. Plenty of fun though on all the other thin ice / rock bits on tr here. As we were rapping off met up with a party of 7 (yes seven) from bellingham. Nice guys, but an awful lot of them. Synchronicity - whole sections of it are missing. Carl's berg - had ice, looked thin, but I'm sure there are plenty that could do it. Marble - waite for spring area on the left has lot's of different lines, none of them very fat. the gang of 7 pretty much owned this area. The deeping wall/farmed ice (how do you distinguish the routes if it's all one wall of ice?) has plenty of ice and plenty of lines, some hacked up with hooks all the way up, some with overhangs onto curtains, some real thin weeps. Icy bc first pitch has two lines, the left is thinner and steeper, the right is rampier and thicker. the second pitch has ice but water is flowing/splashing pretty hard all over it. the third pitch is reported in, and looks in from the road but we didn't go up there. by the way, if anybody goes to the mile-o, check out the ice climber log. There's some _very_ interesting, albeit anonymous comments in there about one of cc.com's more prolific posters - something about climbing his mama. thanks to ryland for a fun weekend, -john

Oh it's an online poll, those are really really reliable right? kinda like the polls we have here.

Thanks caveman, one more stupid question: What book?

Once you get to Canal Flats what's the approach to Gib Wall?

allright dude, you just lost all credibility (if you had any). Alright then, are you a pacifist?? because that's the implication - war is never justified and peace at all and any costs. I disagree completely, but it's a moral and consistent postition to take. So, do you oppose all war all the time or just this one?

I think the carabiner thing is better with one of those other friction knots, like a kleimheist.

While I wouldn't call gw a war mongerer, I think it's telling that our strongest european support is coming from countries that have a real, vivid, and recent experience with tyranny. The east european countries are becoming the real europe, outgrowing the tired, old, staid, and smug french and germans almost 2 to 1. The franco/germans see the inevitability of their decline and are lashing out. The czech republic is the jewel of eastern europe, grand cities, a history of opposing tyranny (remember the prague spring?) and a philosopher/president that will go down in history along with lech walesa, pope john paul II, ronald reagan, and thatcher as the architects of the final defeat of communism. War is a terrible thing, but it's far from the worst thing imaginable. "We must fight, is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God, I know not what course others may take, but for me, Give me Liberty or Give me Death!" - Patrick Henry

what he said

The "new" europe gets it, do you? January 30, 2003 Europe and America must stand united THE real bond between the United States and Europe is the values we share: democracy, individual freedom, human rights and the Rule of Law. These values crossed the Atlantic with those who sailed from Europe to help create the USA. Today they are under greater threat than ever. The attacks of 11 September showed just how far terrorists — the enemies of our common values — are prepared to go to destroy them. Those outrages were an attack on all of us. In standing firm in defence of these principles, the governments and people of the United States and Europe have amply demonstrated the strength of their convictions. Today more than ever, the transatlantic bond is a guarantee of our freedom. We in Europe have a relationship with the United States which has stood the test of time. Thanks in large part to American bravery, generosity and far-sightedness, Europe was set free from the two forms of tyranny that devastated our continent in the 20th century: Nazism and Communism. Thanks, too, to the continued cooperation between Europe and the United States we have managed to guarantee peace and freedom on our continent. The transatlantic relationship must not become a casualty of the current Iraqi regime’s persistent attempts to threaten world security. In today’s world, more than ever before, it is vital that we preserve that unity and cohesion. We know that success in the day-to-day battle against terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction demands unwavering determination and firm international cohesion on the part of all countries for whom freedom is precious. The Iraqi regime and its weapons of mass destruction represent a clear threat to world security. This danger has been explicitly recognised by the United Nations. All of us are bound by Security Council Resolution 1441, which was adopted unanimously. We Europeans have since reiterated our backing for Resolution 1441, our wish to pursue the UN route and our support for the Security Council, at the Prague Nato Summit and the Copenhagen European Council. In doing so, we sent a clear, firm and unequivocal message that we would rid the world of the danger posed by Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. We must remain united in insisting that his regime is disarmed. The solidarity, cohesion and determination of the international community are our best hope of achieving this peacefully. Our strength lies in unity. The combination of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism is a threat of incalculable consequences. It is one at which all of us should feel concerned. Resolution 1441 is Saddam Hussein’s last chance to disarm using peaceful means. The opportunity to avoid greater confrontation rests with him. Sadly this week the UN weapons inspectors have confirmed that his long-established pattern of deception, denial and non-compliance with UN Security Council resolutions is continuing. Europe has no quarrel with the Iraqi people. Indeed, they are the first victims of Iraq’s current brutal regime. Our goal is to safeguard world peace and security by ensuring that this regime gives up its weapons of mass destruction. Our governments have a common responsibility to face this threat. Failure to do so would be nothing less than negligent to our own citizens and to the wider world. The United Nations Charter charges the Security Council with the task of preserving international peace and security. To do so, the Security Council must maintain its credibility by ensuring full compliance with its resolutions. We cannot allow a dictator to systematically violate those Resolutions. If they are not complied with, the Security Council will lose its credibility and world peace will suffer as a result. We are confident that the Security Council will face up to its responsibilities. José María Aznar, Spain José Manuel Durão Barroso, Portugal Silvio Berlusconi, Italy Tony Blair, United Kingdom Václav Havel, Czech Republic Peter Medgyessy, Hungary Leszek Miller, Poland Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Denmark http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-559907,00.html