sobo

This is a much improved strategy. Don't abandon him, especially an untrained n00b. Others will have to go look for him, possibly endangering themselves. Right. You should not require a guide if you can read a map and know how to navigate in a white-out. Reasonably in-shape folks, exercising common sense and good judgement, and adept at map & compass (or GPS) navigation in low/zero visibility conditions, with adequate protective layers/shelter will find this a fun outing. Don't let reaching the destination be the arbiter of success or failure of your trip. The idea is to have fun and come back again. Good luck, and enjoy!

Dee Molenaar... a real class act. You guys over there should go see that.

My $0.02: if the brother doesn't change his cavalier attitude in a timely manner and get off the couch soon, leave him at home. Don't let him start out and then have to find his own way down, especially if the weather turns to shit after you dump him. I have personally "assisted" several "Coloradans" off Mt. Rainier over the years. Their collective comments at their failure goes something like, "WOW! We run up and down 14-ers all day long in Colorado. I never thought it'd be like this!" Not trying to scare you off, but be forewarned. It's not a hill to be trifled with, even in the middle of the summer. The brother's attitude could make for a bad day for more than just your group.

WOW! Then I'll be sooooo hip, now! Thanks OC!

oxymoron?

What about me and NYC007? come on Sobo. Anyways, from what I've heard the road is still snowed in. I can't wait to get up there this summer. I did indeed think about both of you, and even more folks up that way (fleblebleb, Philip L., Marc D., Jim M., etc.), but as you can see, I could have just gone on and on. At some point, I figgerd that some of you "Nor'easters" would find this thread eventually and weigh in on the issue. I wasn't out to exclude anyone specifically.

Holster... Check! Tape on glasses... Check! Sexual desperation... Check! Check! Even got a plastic pocket protector and a slide rule. Yep! I'm a geek!

Somehow, I'm pretty sure that Lou realizes this, even if Peter might not have initially. I'm sure they're both on the same page by now. They are not dummies. Not at all.

You'd be in for a real treat. It will take at least two people who know what they are doing. And actively applying that knowledge toward the endeavor at hand. Already did. Should be sufficient. A copy of Randall Green's Idaho Rock might set you straight. Or wait for folks like pindude, Dane, MCash, CatManDoo, slothrop, or others to chime in. Minimum trad skills of 5.10 stiff to be nice and comfortable. You'd prolly get by with strong 5.9 skilz with a ropegun. Yes. And apparently hard at that.

Ohhh, the places this thread could go...

Yowser! I never knew that coffee was a contact sport.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, TI, eh? From past experience with TIs, I'm guessing it's AOS and not RPN, right? Sorry, not interested. Really want another HP-15. Thanks anyway, tho.

I'm largely in agreement with your statement. I think it will be good for the majority of those wishing to be guided to the summit. Lou and I had a pleasant exchange over this topic at the Yakima workshop.

Yah, yah, yah, I know, they're fossils. But I'm going to have to replace "Ol' Faithful" soon and I don't have the time right now to learn all the ins and outs of, nor the inclination to drop $200+/- on, one of the newer HPs. So if you have one gathering dust in your desk drawer, lemme know.

This decision is the result of all of the planning meetings that were held over the past several years, culminating in the public input workshops of last spring held throughout the state. While some may be happy with this decision, others will surely not be. But it's kind of like an election: if you didn't vote, then you can't really bitch. I just hope that all of you out there that feel strongly about this issue got to a workshop or wrote a letter last spring and got your comments entered. I know I did.

Unlikely. If you kept the warranty paper, it will most likely show only the model number. The serial number is usually something that you have to fill in the blank. Hope you get your stuff back all the same.

anyone ever try this? Yes, I have. I've used Scott's sample letter for beating the fee at least four or five times since 1997. I have never been "hunted down" by The Law on the fee demo issue as others on this board have stated they have been. I'm currently purchasing a new home, and if I have a warrant out for my arrest for failure to pay fines, I'm sure I would have heard about it by now. When I bought my last house in 1994, the lender wouldn't approve my loan until I paid a 3-year-old parking ticket from Seattle that an old GF got when she borrowed my car. So I think the law knows who and where I am if they want to come after me. Scott may seem to many to be a bit whacko, but he sincerely believes in his cause. I, for one, have sent in his petition several times over the years. And I thought we were done with all this bullshit at about this time last year.

I'm not really up to speed on the NW Forest Pass issue as others on this board might be, but I hate the whole idea of the NW Forest Pass and Fee Demo. I seem to recall that formalizing the Fee Demo program into a federal law was attached as a rider to the Omnibus Appropriations Bill (Congress's last budget amendment in late '04), and Fee Demo was to become federal (i.e.: **U.S.**) law upon passage of that amendment (which was passed for the sake of having a national budget and thereby avoiding government shutdown). That is probably why ivan and Heinrich are getting letters from the **U.S.** legal system and not the benign "please pay your fee now" envelopes that the Forest Service used to give out. Now the FS has a federal law behind their extortionist scheme, and a big brother to carry out the threat. It was a sneaky way for Congressman Regula to get this Fee Demo bullshit passed into law, but I also understand that there is a way for the public to have it removed. See Scott Silver's site for tips on how to beat this bullshit. And anyone who may know more about this issue than me, please feel free to correct/edit anything that I've posted so that we are dealing with fact on this issue. I'm just going on what I remember happened.

Seriously, Rudy, it was! It was either Zig or Zag at the Bridge Buttress (I don't remember which exactly; it was 20 years ago), a 5.9 single-pitch trad lead. My partner had convinced me that it was only 5.6. Yikes!

Ahhh, yes. The time-honored climbing tradition known as "sandbagging", traditionally reserved for n00b leaders or out-of-town guests. We've all done it, or at least had it done to us. "I remember my first trad lead. It was at the New River Gorge..." (voice trails off and uncontrolled nervous ticking ensues)

My sentiments exactly, Freeman. I alerted our SAR deputy and our unit's board and general membership to be on the lookout for this shite.

Nimrod's is indeed the 5.5 roof at the left end of the wall. The adjacent route is Nimble Novice, also a 5.5. The wall there is nothing close to vertical, so a fall (even a short one) can easily place one into a position to catch an appendage on the voyage down and tweak it pretty hard. Sometimes shit just happens. Bummer the guy got hurt. I hope he heals up soon.

I think your best bet for that kind of a day would be at Windy Point Columns, but know that the routes are really short, like 25-30 feet or so. Cracks between the columns, bolts on the faces of them. Just go walking around and climb what looks good to you and the missus. I would suggest the Cave. Short bolted routes with some cracks in between. Recreational Jugs (5.7) is a fun warm up. Not to quibble, but there must be almost 50 established routes for the three walls at The Cave. Subtracting the "projects" results in a total of probably 45 or so rated routes. Trogdor is looking for a place with face climbs rated at less than 5.9 (see his "<5.9" comment above) for his fiance'. There are only about five climbs rated at less than 5.9 in this area, and two of them are cracks, so this leaves only Children of a Lesser Chaos (8), Age of Consent (8), and Recreational Jugs (7) as viable face climbs for her. Three short climbs is a pretty quick day, but maybe that's what Trogdor is looking for. I still think they might find a lot more to occupy them at WPC, as I said earlier. YMMV.

Listen to your autosig...

I think your best bet for that kind of a day would be at Windy Point Columns, but know that the routes are really short, like 25-30 feet or so. Cracks between the columns, bolts on the faces of them. Just go walking around and climb what looks good to you and the missus.